Was the term chrestus applied to the merchant class?

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MrMacSon
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Re: Was the term chrestus applied to the merchant class?

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Joseph D. L. wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:23 am I can't remember if it was a Carrier lecture or Xoroaster from way, way back when where one of them said that the merchant class was referred to as chrestus and that when Tacitus wrote that Nero blamed the chrestians for the fire he was in fact blaming the merchants.

Thoughts? Makes Marcion being the owner of a ship yard (popular for merchants) rather conspicuous.
I've seen reference to merchant shipping in the eastern Mediterranean being instrumental in the spread of the Egyptian mystery religions in the Roman period 1st century bc to 2nd and even the 3rd century ad/ce. There have been various proposals that followers of some of these were called chrestians/christians; maybe their bishops or even individual lay leaders or followers were also called chrestus or the like.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Was the term chrestus applied to the merchant class?

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MrMacSon wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:42 am

I've seen reference to merchant shipping in the eastern Mediterranean being instrumental in the spread of the Egyptian mystery religions in the Roman period 1st century bc to 2nd and even the 3rd century ad/ce. There have been various proposals that followers of some of these were called chrestians/christians; maybe their bishops or even individual lay leaders or followers were also called chrestus or the like.
Aye. And the Mithraic mysteries being transported from Cilicia to Rome by "pirates" according to Plutarch. Add the in the significance of Paul delivering the Good News of Chrestus/Christ by ship.

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The nautical symbolism in the New Testament and early church imagery is made all the more appropriate.
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MrMacSon
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Re: Was the term chrestus applied to the merchant class?

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Joseph D. L. wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:19 am Aye. And the Mithraic mysteries being transported from Cilicia to Rome by "pirates" according to Plutarch. Add the in the significance of Paul delivering the Good News of Chrestus/Christ by ship.
And significance of the various stories of Jesus' actions on and preaching from boats on the 'Sea of Galilee' (a name the gospel authors made up)
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Was the term chrestus applied to the merchant class?

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MrMacSon wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:08 pm And significance of the various stories of Jesus' actions on and preaching from boats on the 'Sea of Galilee' (a name the gospel authors made up)
Aye aye. And Pontius Pilate is a reference to the Pontus and mariners. (My opinion is Marcion, Pilate and Longinus are essentially representing the same things. Could be Hadrian, i.e. Adriatic, or a new Noah, or both.)
nightshadetwine
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Re: Was the term chrestus applied to the merchant class?

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MrMacSon wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:08 pm
Joseph D. L. wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:19 am Aye. And the Mithraic mysteries being transported from Cilicia to Rome by "pirates" according to Plutarch. Add the in the significance of Paul delivering the Good News of Chrestus/Christ by ship.
And significance of the various stories of Jesus' actions on and preaching from boats on the 'Sea of Galilee' (a name the gospel authors made up)
I know this is an old post but the point you make here is interesting. Isis was popular with sailors because she was able to save people from danger. One of her more popular "powers" was to calm storms. Another interesting connection is that in the mysteries of Osiris and in the Greco-Roman era mysteries of Isis, there's some kind of boat journey. There's also journeys by boat in the Egyptian underworld texts where the Egyptian sun god and his entourage are able to calm the storms of the underworld. The underworld was full of the primordial waters where the serpent Apophis swam. Apophis was associated with storms so calming the storms of the underworld meant you had power over Apophis. I think this relates to Jesus's power over storms and water (by being able to walk on it).

Joel Marcus, Mark 1-8, Anchor Yale Bible Commentaries, p.432-433:
There is a strong OT association between waters, especially the waters of the unruly sea, and death; this association is reflected in Mark’s narrative itself in 10:38–39, which speaks allusively of death as a form of baptism, and elsewhere in the NT in Rev 15:2, where those who stand on the crystal sea are martyrs who have triumphed over death (cf. Lohmeyer, 135). With this association in mind, Jesus’ walking on the sea becomes symbolic of his conquest of death, a symbolism that seems to be picked up in the retelling of the story in Odes Sol. 39 (cf. Dibelius, 277–78).
“The Jesus of Mark and the Sea of Galilee”, Elizabeth Malbon JBL 103/3 (1984), pp. 363-377:
Mark presupposes the connotation of the sea as chaos, threat, danger, in opposition to the land as order, promise, security. …The threatening power of the sea is manifest, but the power of Jesus’ word is portrayed as stronger; Jesus stills the storm and walks on the water, overcoming the threat of the sea; Jesus causes the swine possessed by unclean spirits to rush to their deaths in the sea (5:23a, b), turning the threat of the sea to his own purpose.
Notice Jesus uses his speech to calm the sea. The Egyptian sun god uses speech to raise the dead, calm storms, etc. in the underworld. I have a theory that the Gospels are influenced by this story of the Egyptian sun god's journey through the underworld - especially John.

The Search for God in Ancient Egypt (Cornell University Press, 2001), Jan Assmann:
The nightly journey of the sun as a descensus ad inferos brought the sun god into constellations with the inhabitants of the netherworld, the transfigured dead. His light, and in particular his speech, awoke them from the sleep of death and allowed them to participate in the life-giving order that emanated from his course. But in this, the god himself experienced the form of existence of the transfigured dead and set an example for them by overcoming death.
Who else set an example by overcoming death? :think:

Voices from Ancient Egypt: An Anthology of Middle Kingdom Writings (British Museum, 1991), R. B. Parkinson:
Through both halves of the text runs the idea of imposing an ideal ethical order on chaos, which is represented by images of storm and serpents, as well as by mankind's tendency to evil:
"WORDS SPOKEN BY HIM WHOSE NAMES ARE HIDDEN. The Lord to the Limit speaks before those who still the storm, at the sailing of the entourage:
I am the lord of fire who lives on truth, the lord of eternity, maker of joy, against whom the otherworldly serpents have not rebelled. I am the god in his shrine, the lord of slaughter, who calms the storm, who drives off the serpents..."
An Examination of the Isis Cult with Preliminary Exploration Into New Testament Studies (University Press of America, 2008), Elizabeth A. McCabe:
Isis helped anyone who called upon her, both women and men, in any area of trouble, from childbirth to shipwreck... The Kyme Aretalogy asserts, "I [Isis] am the Quenn of rivers and winds and sea....I am the Queen of the thunderbolt. I stir up the sea and I calm it... I am the queen of seamanship..."... Consider the Lord's acts on the Sea of Galilee in stilling the storm as evident in the gospel accounts... Besides being an advocate for equality, another similarity between Isis and Christ is the power over the seas. Isis is known for her control over the seas, saying, “I [Isis) am the Queen of rivers and winds and sea. . . . I am the Queen of the thunderbolt. I stir up the sea and I calm it.... I am the Queen of seamanship. I make the navigable unnavigable when it pleases me.".
The Ancient Egyptian Coffin Texts Vol. III, R.O. Faulkner:
Spell 904: "N [= the resurrected/transfigured deceased] is on his way to the Garden of [ ... ], N will drive in the mooring-post in the Waterway of Horus, N will dispel the storm."
Spell 1069: "I am the lizard which created thunder, who lifts up Maret to Re and repels the strength of Apep [=Apophis], who splits up the sky and drives away the storm, and who nourishes the crews of Re."
"Crossing of the Lake Ritual", Eltayeb Abbas, Current Research In Egyptology 2009 Proceedings of the Tenth Annual Symposium:
The aim of these rituals is to mediate the deceased’s passage to become an "Akh", which allows him to escape the realm of death and join the realm of Akh (Assmann 2005, 332).The evidence discussed above comes from Old Kingdom royal and private tombs, and in both, the crossing of the lake is closely associated with becoming an Ax, mediated by a lector priest who recites liturgies from a papyrus roll. Crossing a lake, whether this lake is given a name or not, lies in a resurrection ritual context in which libation offerings are presented to a deceased. Finally libation is envisaged as a lake, and the deceased should cross over it. This is reinforced by some Old Kingdom libation basins which were decorated with boats crossing over water. For instance, on one of the offering tables from Abydos, there is a depiction of four boats carved on the narrow step of the offering basin, which indicates that these basins were used as replacements for the lakes and rivers over which the deceased can travel to the Netherworld (Hölzl 2002, 67)... Crossing a lake occurs in Coffin Text spell 62, which reads: "I cause that you make manifestations with the Dwj.t bird (?). I cause that you cross the ptrwj (?) and cross the lake, And traverse the sea (in) sandals, As you had done on land..."
A Companion to Ancient Egypt (John Wiley & Sons, 2010), Alan B. Lloyd:
Osiride festivals were evidently an important part of the year at temples throughout Egypt, as attested in papyri but also from the archaeological evidence for the burial of figurines of Osiris at Karnak. Abydos, the southern center for Osiride cult, hosted an important processional festival. A Twelfth Dynasty stela of the "overseer of gold and silver houses" Ikhernofret, describes his participation in a dramatic performance relating to the triumph of Osiris:

"I conducted the Procession of Wepwawet, when he goes forth to champion his father, I repulsed the attackers of the nsmt-barque, I felled the
enemies of Osiris. I conducted the Great Procession, following the god in his steps. I made the god's boat sail, Thoth steering the sailing.
I equiped with a cabin the barque "Truly-risen-is-the-lord-of-Abydos." Decked in his beautiful regalia he proceeded to the domain of Peker. I
cleared the god's path to his tomb in Peqer. I protencted Wennefer on that day of great combat."
"Initiations and Mysteries in Apuleius' Metamorphoses", (Rutgers University), Sarolta A. Takács:
The human Lucius will go through three initiation rites in the cult of Isis and Osiris, but none of Apuleius’ descriptions offers the same emotional detail as the metamorphosis from ass to human. The often cited Reginald Witt stated that “[f]rom the pages of Apuleius we can gain much invaluable knowledge of the main features of Isiac initiation as it was practiced in the imperial age (Isis in the Ancient World, 1997.158).” Indeed, the text offers “invaluable knowledge” but none about the mystery. The knowledge we gain is about public actions such as 1) the procession of the setting out of a model ship to inaugurate the opening of the sailing season on March 5 (the navigium Isidis) and 2) the subsequent ceremony in the temple of Isis.
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