Marcion adored the Genesiac Serpent as Jesus Chrestos

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Giuseppe
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Marcion adored the Genesiac Serpent as Jesus Chrestos

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:49 am


The departure point of this investigation will be a passage from Religious History, a history of Syrian monks by Theodoretus of Cyrrhus dedicated also to James, a holy man who lived at the time of Theodoretus. This work was written in about 440 AD. In Chapter XXI 19 Theodoretus writes that in the Cyrrhus area Marcion had sown
"the many seeds of his errors"

and the followers of his heretical gnostic church were still active in the 5th century.
Theodoretus and James, having failed to convince the heretics, used force, but the largest of the villages contaminated by the Marcionite heresy resisted valiantly; then Isaiah, Theodoretus' right-hand man, told him of a vision that had come to him:

"As soon as the singing of the psalms began, 1 saw over where those villages stand a serpent offire gliding through the air from West to East. After praying three times, I saw it once again, coiled in a circle, so that its head was joined to its tail. I recited more prayers and saw that it had divided into two parts and dissolved into smoke."

Theodoretus goes on:

"Then we saw that the prophecy had come true. In the morning the followers of the serpent, the source of all error, and its supporters, claiming to belong to the apostolic phalanx, appeared from the West with swords unsheathed. By the third hour they were in serried ranks, on the defensive, like the snake when it covered its head with its tail. At last, at the eighth hour, they dispersed and left the path into the village to us. I immediately found the bronze snake they adored as the enemy of the Creator of the universe, against Whom they had openly decided to wage war."


(From Jewish Magic to Gnosticism, Attilio Mastrocinque, p. 8-9, my bold)

In precedence, the author writes:

For Marcion it would not have been important to define himself as 'gnostic' or 'non-gnostic'; the essential thing for him was that the creator was an evil god and that it was necessary to embrace Christianity.

(ibid., p. 6, my bold)


When Justin, Irenaeus, Epiphanius used expressions as "the Serpent who was in Marcion", they reported the truth from Marcion's POV: the Genesiac Serpent, i.e. Jesus Christ, possessed spiritually them just as Christ possessed Paul.

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Re: Marcion adored the Genesiac Serpent as Jesus Chrestos

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:59 am

The evidence of the evil demiurge YHWH killing the Genesiac Serpent "Jesus":


A magic papyrus says:
"Thou who hast swallowed the immortal serpent and every day liftest the sun's disc and the moon's disc, thou whose name is ithioo ei Arbathiao e" [120]. Arbathiao means "Fourfold Yahweh" (from the four-letter name) [121].


(ibid., p. 30, my bold)
[120] PGM IV, 23-7. Sun and Moon praise God in Ps. 148,3 and Dan. 3,62; the sun obeys God by rising at his command: Ps. 104,19.

[121] W.Fauth, Arbath lao, OrChr 67, 1983, 65- 103.

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Re: Marcion adored the Genesiac Serpent as Jesus Chrestos

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:46 pm


The Peratae, who have already been discussed briefly, attached a great deal of importance to the figure of Moses, who saved his people from snakes by showing them the ὄφις τέλειος, the "perfect snake". [828] The perfect snake was identified with the rod of Moses (and Aaron), transformed into a snake in front of the Egyptian magi. This snake was also identified with the one that appeared to Eve, and called καθολικός ὄφις e σοφός λόγος. Lastly the snake was identified with Jesus. The Peratae acknowledged the existence of three entities: the Father, the Son and Matter. In the human microcosm the Father, that is, spirit, was represented by the brain, the Son by the spinal column, and Matter by semen, which generated life through the movement of the spinal column, after drawing inspiration from the brain830. In the heavenly macrocosm the Son, in the form of a snake, the mover of the firmament, was recognized, as we have said, in the Dragon constellation, and described as ὄφις τέλειος, between the Lyre and the Crown, near the ἀτελὴς ὄφις, "the imperfect snake", the one restrained by the Ophiouchos, to prevent it from reaching the Crown.
The portrayal of the god Tepiach holding the serpent-rod is similar to that of the Mithraic Aion, who holds the cosmic axis in one hand and makes it rotate [831]; also, the fact that the snake and mover of the cosmos is Jesus explains the dance of Jesus surrounded by a circle of Apostles, described in the Acts of John, a Gnostic apocryphon [832]. Jesus is near the cosmic pole and therefore dominates the axis round which everything turns; he does not move, but through him movement is propagated and messages are sent through the cosmos from the supreme, unknowable god.



[828] In Just., dial. 91 (332 Otto) Moses' brazen serpent was a prefiguration of the crucified Christ, who saved humanity, just as the snake saved the Hebrews. Cf. August., Serm. 37,2 (CC 41 , 448 Lambot). On the iconography ofa cross combined with a snake: Testa, II simbolismo dei Giudeo-Cristiani (n. 115), 278- 282. The portrayal of Christ as a snake is confirmed in the eucharistic ceremony of the Ophites, who placed a snake on the table; the snake consecrated the bread when it came into contact with it: Epiph., haer. XXXVII 5,6- 7 (ll, 57 Holl). The definition "perfect snake" probably came from Plato, who in Timaeus 29 A, speaks of the "perfect living creature" (ζώων τέλειον, which could be translated as "perfect animal"), which the Demiurge looks at during creation. Hippolytus identifies the Peratae with the Ophites, and Origen (Cels. VI 28; 98 Koet.) says that Euphrates was the father of the Ophite sect, while according to Hippolytus he was one of the fathers of the Peratae.

...

[832] Acta Joh. 94 (CChr.SA 1, Turnhout 1983, 199 Junod, Kaestli); cf. B.E. Bowe, Dancing into the Divine: The Hymn of the Dance in the Acts of John, JECS 7, 1999, 83- 104. Ignatius, one of the Apostolic Fathers, described the birth of Jesus as a dance of all the constellations, together with the sun and the moon, around the Redeemer's star: 19n., Eph. 19,2 (88 Camelot).

(ibid., p. 181-182, my bold)

Note how Ex Theo 74 judaizes this Gnostic myth of Jesus as an astral star:
Secret Alias wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:09 am
I am not for the 'outer space' interpretation. This is the closest I've seen in early Patristic writings:
Therefore the Lord came down bringing the peace which is from heaven to those on earth, as the Apostle says, "Peace on the earth and glory in the heights." Therefore a strange and new star arose doing away with the old astral decree, shining with a new unearthly light, which revolved on a new path of salvation, as the Lord himself, men's guide, who came down to earth to transfer from Fate to his providence those who believed in Christ. [Ex Theo 74]

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Re: Marcion ?

Post by arnoldo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:05 am

Do you admit there is zero archaeological evidence for Marcion and no second-century extant original writings by him? If so, by what criteria do you accept this person as a historical, not mythical, person?

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Re: Marcion adored the Genesiac Serpent as Jesus Chrestos

Post by Secret Alias » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:50 am

Answer: his version of Marcion suits his version of early Christianity.

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Re: Marcion ?

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:01 am

arnoldo wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:05 am
If so,
it is not "so". Simply, my scenario continues to be probable even if "Marcion" is only a mere label to allude to Christian haters of YHWH.

The onus probandi is on Secret Alias, a real modern "Judaizer", to prove that Theodoretus based himself on Irenaeus (sic) when he reported that the Marcionites found in Syria were haters of YHWH and adorers of the Genesiac Serpent.

My goal is not to provoke a flame here with other users of the forum. My contribute is not very original. Probably, where I expose REAL ORIGINAL CONTRIBUTE to the discussion is in this thread, where I explain why the original Passion story has Pilate questioning Jesus and why scribes and pharisees figure continually as questioners of Jesus's identity and authority. I am the first mythicist of the planet to expose these reasons, modesty apart.

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Re: Marcion adored the Genesiac Serpent as Jesus Chrestos

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:20 am

Secret Alias wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:50 am
his version of early Christianity.
how of grace can you call the author of the first gospel as a member of the "early Christianity" ?

For "early Christianity" I mean the Pillars and Paul and Hebrews and Revelation. Period. All the rest is late post 135 CE, even the making of the gospels.

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Re: Marcion ?

Post by arnoldo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:01 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:01 am
arnoldo wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:05 am
If so,
it is not "so". Simply, my scenario continues to be probable even if "Marcion" is only a mere label to allude to . . .[/b]
Gracias. Let me rephrase the question then. Do you admit there is zero archaeological evidence for Marcionite community and no second-century extant original writings by a marcionite community? If so, by what criteria do you accept a marcionite community as a historical, not a mythical, entity?

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Re: Marcion ?

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:10 am

arnoldo wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:01 am
Giuseppe wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:01 am
arnoldo wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:05 am
If so,
it is not "so". Simply, my scenario continues to be probable even if "Marcion" is only a mere label to allude to . . .[/b]
Gracias. Let me rephrase the question then. Do you admit there is zero archaeological evidence for Marcionite community and no second-century extant original writings by a marcionite community? If so, by what criteria do you accept a marcionite community as a historical, not a mythical, entity?
  • The Celsus' Jew is dated to second-century. Isn't he ?
  • In addition, the rule of inference says us that when you have an apologist of the early II century who does claims of this type: "we adore the Creator alone as supreme god" et similia, then a polemic is in view against haters of YHWH and you can call them "marcionites". Can't you?
  • In addition, there are Gospel passages that can be interpreted validly only as marcionite or anti-marcionite.
    For example, the Parable of Wineskins or the Parable of Lamp give a good Marcionite interpretation. Just as Mark 4:11-12 is in absolute the best anti-marcionite passage in circulation in all the NT: a point where prof Vinzent is indebted strongly to Couchoud and I would accuse him of plagiarism if he will not recognize honestly the influence.

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Re: Marcion ?

Post by arnoldo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:02 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:10 am
arnoldo wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:01 am
Giuseppe wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:01 am
arnoldo wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:05 am
If so,
it is not "so". Simply, my scenario continues to be probable even if "Marcion" is only a mere label to allude to . . .[/b]
Gracias. Let me rephrase the question then. Do you admit there is zero archaeological evidence for Marcionite community and no second-century extant original writings by a marcionite community? If so, by what criteria do you accept a marcionite community as a historical, not a mythical, entity?
  • The Celsus' Jew is dated to second-century. Isn't he ?
  • In addition, the rule of inference says us that when you have an apologist of the early II century who does claims of this type: "we adore the Creator alone as supreme god" et similia, then a polemic is in view against haters of YHWH and you can call them "marcionites". Can't you?
  • In addition, there are Gospel passages that can be interpreted validly only as marcionite or anti-marcionite.
    For example, the Parable of Wineskins or the Parable of Lamp give a good Marcionite interpretation. Just as Mark 4:11-12 is in absolute the best anti-marcionite passage in circulation in all the NT: a point where prof Vinzent is indebted strongly to Couchoud and I would accuse him of plagiarism if he will not recognize honestly the influence.
Gracias.

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