Papias's Seven Elders match the seven disciples in Pistis Sophia

[Giuseppe]

Papias didn't know the synoptic gospels since the latter mention 12 disciples and not "seven Elders".

Where did Papias derive the names of the 7 Elders?

It is interesting that the same names of the 7 Elders are found (as names of 7 disciples) in a coptic version of the gnostic Pistis Sophia from Egypt.

The final thesis is that the Judaizers (who else?) had increased the original 7 GNOSTIC disciples to our 12 disciples.

The same process in action with the Gospel miracle feeding, where the 7000 version is more original than the other.

7 is the signature of the gentilizer, 12 is the signature of the judaizer.

[Giuseppe]

List of Papias	List of Pistis Sophia	List of Ebionites (Epiphanius, Panarion 30:13)
Peter	Simon the Cananite identified with Peter	Simon called Peter
		Simon the Zealot
Andrew	Andrew	Andrew
Philip	Philip
Thomas	Thomas
James	James	James
John	John	John
Matthew	Matthew Bartholomew	Matthew Thaddeus Judas Iscarioth

[Giuseppe]

Can someone give a link to a translation available in internet of the coptic version of the Pistis Sophia?

I have found this but it is in German, where I can only find the list of the first 6 names above:

Während Jesus aber (die) dieses sprach, | befanden sich 358 Thomas, Andreas, Jakobus und Simon, der Kananiter (Kava- io
im "Westen, mit ihren Gesichtern nach Osten gekehrt, Philippus aber (de) und Bartholomäus befanden sich im Süden

https://archive.org/stream/PistisSophia ... 5_djvu.txt

[andrewcriddle]

Can someone give a link to a translation available in internet of the coptic version of the Pistis Sophia?

I have found this but it is in German, where I can only find the list of the first 6 names above:

Während Jesus aber (die) dieses sprach, | befanden sich 358 Thomas, Andreas, Jakobus und Simon, der Kananiter (Kava- io
im "Westen, mit ihren Gesichtern nach Osten gekehrt, Philippus aber (de) und Bartholomäus befanden sich im Süden

https://archive.org/stream/PistisSophia ... 5_djvu.txt

http://gnosis.org/library/pistis-sophia/index.htm

Andrew Criddle

[Giuseppe]

http://gnosis.org/library/pistis-sophia/index.htm

are you sure that it is the coptic version?

[andrewcriddle]

http://gnosis.org/library/pistis-sophia/index.htm

are you sure that it is the coptic version?

Pistis Sophia survives only in Coptic. All translations ultimately derive from the Coptic.
The translation I linked to is basically a translation into English of a Latin translation of the Coptic revised on the basis of a French translation of the Latin and a German translation from the original Coptic. See http://gnosis.org/library/pistis-sophia/ps002.htm

Andrew Criddle