The probable origin of the crucifixion: Numbers 21:9

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Achamoth
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Re: The probable origin of the crucifixion: Numbers 21:9

Post by Achamoth »

With the Romans definitely crucifying so many Jews during the time period you hardly need any other explanation of where the crucifixion story comes from.
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Giuseppe
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Re: The probable origin of the crucifixion: Numbers 21:9

Post by Giuseppe »

Really? Are you so stupidely naive and credulous?

Did the Romans rule an entire "aeon"? Was Pilate a kosmokrator?

What is the coincidence that:
  • the only crucified being in the entire OT was just the Genesiac Serpent

  • Jesus is crucified shortly after he was compared to a rival Jesus Bar-Abbas ("Jesus Son of Father")

  • The "crucified Christ" was a scandal to Jews.
There is none coincidence at all.
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Giuseppe
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Re: The probable origin of the crucifixion: Numbers 21:9

Post by Giuseppe »

Carl Gustav Jung gives me indirectly reason.

In his study of human archetipes, he defined the crucified serpent the symbol of the: fixating the volatile.
  • The "volatile" is the Jesus who changes continually form during his descent through the lower heavens: any heaven implies a new form for him.
  • "Fixating the volatile" alludes to the crucifixion of Jesus in the lower heaven, when he ceased immediately to assume a new form and was crucified, for that reason, by the Demons, not by Romans, as "object unidentified".
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arnoldo
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Synchronicity

Post by arnoldo »

Giuseppe wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:16 pm Carl Gustav Jung gives me indirectly reason. .
400px-Brazen_Serpent_Sculpture.jpg
400px-Brazen_Serpent_Sculpture.jpg (46.64 KiB) Viewed 7083 times
The Christological Symbol (Brazen Serpent Sculpture), created by Italian artist, Giovanni Fantoni, stands atop Mount Nebo. It is symbolic of the bronze serpent created by Moses in the wilderness (Numbers 21:4-9) and the cross upon which Jesus was crucified (John 3:14).
Last edited by arnoldo on Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Giuseppe
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Re: The probable origin of the crucifixion: Numbers 21:9

Post by Giuseppe »

Curiously, in Genesis 3, I find the same chronological sequence:
  • Question
  • Answer
  • Crucifixion
In the following episode:


But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?"

Question

10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”

11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

Answer

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,

Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!

Crucifixion

The same sequence is found in the following episode:



Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?"

Question

"I don't know," he replied. "Am I my brother's keeper?"
10

Answer

The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground.
11
Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.
12
When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth."
13
Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is more than I can bear.
14
Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."
15
But the LORD said to him, "Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.

Crucifixion

Note that the "sign of Cain" was the famous tau: the cross.

So, if the malediction is both a crucifixion and a glorification, this sequence fits perfectly the sequence found in another text:

1 Corinthians 2:6-8
Oldest Gospel Passion Story

Then, when the seven rulers came,
they saw hima and were greatly disturbed.

They went up to hima and seized him.a
And [the chief ruler] said to the breath within him,a

"Who are you? And whence did you come hither?"

Ita answered and said, "I have come from 'the force of the man' for the destruction of your work."

When they heard, they glorified him.a

a him = Adam, which Sophie Zoe has just breathed life into = It = not a human

We do, however, speak a message
of wisdom among the mature,
but not the wisdom of this age
or of the rulers of this age,
who are coming to nothing.1a

No, we declare God’s wisdom,
a mystery that has been hidden
and that God destined for our glory before time began.1b

None of the rulers of this age understood it,

for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.



So they bound Jesus, led him away and handed him over to Pilate.

“Are you the king of the Jews?” asked Pilate.

“You have said so,” Jesus replied.

[Pilate] had Jesus flogged,b and handed him over to be crucified.

b the flesh was beaten

The implications may be interesting.
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arnoldo
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Re: The probable origin of the crucifixion: Numbers 21:9

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Giuseppe
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Re: The probable origin of the crucifixion: Numbers 21:9

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Note that Mergui thinks that the confusion of Jesus with the Genesiac Serpent, during his crucifixion (being the Genesiac Serpent the only OT character, apart Aman and Cain, to be 'cursed' hence crucified) , evokes another apocalyptic signum:

The APOSTASY and the HERESY.

Hence, the presence 'there out' of Christians confusing Jesus called Christ with Jesus Bar-Abbas ("Son of Father"), beyond if real or invented, is deliberately shown as an apocalyptic signum, preceding ipso facto the culmination of the evil: the crucifixion of the Son of YHWH (the same god who condamned to crucifixion the object of his malediction, per Deut. 21:23).
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Giuseppe
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Re: The probable origin of the crucifixion: Numbers 21:9

Post by Giuseppe »

So Maurice Mergui:

L’Antéchrist
Le messie advient au comble de l’hérésie. Ce moment est donc aussi, paradoxalement, celui de l’Antéchrist. En effet, l’Antéchrist n’est rien d’autre que l’hérésie à son comble. Cette figure doit donc incorporer non seulement l’impiété maximale, mais aussi l’apparence trompeuse de la piété. Par une sorte de nécessité ontologique, le mal (parce qu’il contient en lui la tromperie) doit se faire passer pour le bien. Du coup, toute distinction est impossible, on est dans l’indistinction absolue

Mt 24,4 -
Et Jésus leur répondit Prenez garde qu'on ne vous abuse Car il en viendra beaucoup sous mon nom, qui diront "C'est moi le Christ", et ils abuseront bien des gens

Le choc entre l’Antéchrist et le messie qu’il suscite immédiatement sera donc de nature cosmique. Il sera donc figuré par la révolte de Satan contre Dieu, ou par la révolte de la Bête primordiale, autrefois vaincue par Dieu, mais qui se révolte une dernière fois contre son créateur. L’indistinction entre cette Bête et le messie est confortée par le fait que la valeur numérique de behema (la Bête) est 52, qui est le chiffre du messie. La Bête prendra par exemple la forme d’un serpent, car celui-ci est un séducteur et que sa valence est 358, qui est aussi la seconde valence du mot messie. Le messie doit écraser de son talon ce serpent. D’où l’expression surveiller les ‘qve mashiaH (les talons, les pieds du messie). Les premiers chrétiens connaissaient un étonnant symbole, l'Amphisbène, un serpent à deux têtes formé de deux moitiés, une noire et une blanche, les deux protagonistes, le Christ et l'Antéchrist, unis et inséparables pour leur dernier combat.
Il est d’ailleurs probable que l’origine du symbole de la croix soit le serpent cloué sur l’arbre de la Genèse ou sur l’étendard de Nb 21,9 et qui évoque la victoire miraculeuse contre le serpent eschatologique qui s’oppose au messie. La liturgie orthodoxe énonce :

Sur la croix, le christ mît à mort notre meurtrier, prosternons-nous devant l’arbre béni, par qui vient la paix éternelle… car celui qui sous l’arbre défendu, séduisit autrefois notre premier père, s’est laissé prendre au piège de la croix, et est précipité dans l’abîme, celui qui imposa sa tyrannie au roi de la création… le christ efface par son sang le venin du serpent… la malédiction est abolie par le juste… le mal causé autrefois par un arbre

Le serpent sera lié à la tribu de Dan, car Dan est un serpent . Dan s’oppose à Juda dans la lutte eschatologique et lui dispute l’attribut du Lion. C’est pourquoi l’Apocalypse ne compte pas cette tribu au nombre des sauvés. Dan, en effet, figure l’idolâtrie permanente du peuple juif à cause des idoles en forme de veaux de Jéroboam (1R 12, 30). La région de Dan (le nord) sera donc globalement assimilée à l’idolâtrie. L’Antéchrist sera aussi figuré par gog et magog car ce dernier terme a une valeur messianique (magog = 52) tout comme belial .

Jézabel s’oppose à Elie, précurseur du messie, elle sera donc aussi une figure de l’Antéchrist. Elle veut s’emparer de la vigne (voir notre glossaire) par la force, mais ce forfait est multiple, il est le comble du forfait (vol, tromperie, parjure, meurtre…). D’où sans doute Mt 11, 12
Depuis les jours de Jean le Baptiste jusqu'à présent le Royaume des Cieux souffre violence, et des violents s'en emparent

Le messie vient à l’apogée du mal. Le midrash chrétien place cet apogée à un niveau maximal, il consiste dans la mort de l’envoyé de Dieu, qui est aussi son double, et donc Dieu lui-même. C’est l’un des sens de l’expression Dieu est mort, problèmatisée par Nietzsche. C’est à ce moment que le retournement s’effectue. Le fils de Dieu ressuscite. Ce schéma est tellement prégnant qu’il semble s’imposer à Nietzsche lui-même (qui se veut pourtant le champion de la critique du Christianisme) au point de baliser chaque étape de sa réflexion: victoire du nihilisme, Ecce Homo, l’Antéchrist, Dieu est mort, transmutation de toutes les valeurs, Nouvel Homme…

https://www.lechampdumidrash.net/index. ... Itemid=485

The amphisbene:

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