The Presence (and Absence) of Nomina Sacra in To Theodore

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Secret Alias
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Re: The Presence (and Absence) of Nomina Sacra in To Theodore

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:21 am

My French has become barbaric:
Ca fait longtemps depuis j'ai essayé d'écrire en français, donc, je suis désolé en avance.

Je suis intéressé par une abréviation utilisée dans P.Louvre Hag. 2–5 (LDAB 6537). On me dit que les lettres c'est l'onciale grecque de type copte, en vigueur du milieu du VIe siècle au Xe siècle, fut employée à la chancellerie patriarcale d'Alexandrie, et adaptée par les Coptes d'Égypte pour la transcription de leur langue.

Ce qui m'intéresse, c'est le nomina sacra et spécifiquement l'abréviation κου plutôt que κυ pour Κυρίου. J'ai trouvé cela dans un manuscrit du 11ème siècle au Vatican ainsi que le document joint du XVIIe siècle. Puisque le document ci-joint raconte l'histoire de la fondation de l'Église alexandrine de Saint-Marc, il m'est naturel de supposer que quelqu'un au XVIIe siècle a transcrit un texte écrit avec ce type d'oncial en Égypte et a apporté le nouveau manuscrit à Mar Saba.

Ma question est de savoir dans quelle mesure le nomen sacrum KOY (ou ΘΟΥ, ΧΟΥ, ΙΟΥ) est commun avec cet oncial d'origine grec alexandrin. Ne se trouve-t-il que dans la vie d'Abraham ou d'autres aussi?

Merci


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Secret Alias
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Re: The Presence (and Absence) of Nomina Sacra in To Theodore

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:00 am

This thesis presents the reconstruction and the commented edition of the fragments of two hagiographical codices on papyrus, from the Musée du Louvre. They preserve some parts of the Life of Eupraxia (codex 1), of the Life of Abraham of Qidun and the Life of Theodora of Alexandria (codex 2). The codex 1 is unedited. The codex 2 was partly published in 1889 by C. Wessely, but as a result of the discovery of new fragments and the restoration of all of these papyri, a new edition was indispensable. After the reading of a large number of medieval manuscripts, it has been possible to fill most of the lacunae. Only the Life of Theodora remains incomplete. These papyri present the oldest witnesses of the Greek version of the texts, allowing the identification of the groups of manuscripts which preserved the best text. The Life of Abraham is a Greek translation of a genuine Syriac text. Some now lost Greek manuscripts, contemporary of the papyrus, have been translated in Christo-Palestinian Aramaic. These versions are studied in particular. The Life of Eupraxia as well as the Life of Theodora are probably fictions in which it is possible to detect the presence of historical-political quarrels.

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Secret Alias
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Re: The Presence (and Absence) of Nomina Sacra in To Theodore

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:26 pm

This settles the Egyptian origin of the nomen sacrum KOY https://books.google.com/books?id=MTS-Z ... 22&f=false

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Re: The Presence (and Absence) of Nomina Sacra in To Theodore

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:32 pm

Odd how Morton Smith chose a marginal nomen sacrum - one whose existence was only proved yesterday -to assist in pulling the wool over everyone's eyes ... in 1958. But then again Trump won the election; we just have to find the evidence to prove it.

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Re: The Presence (and Absence) of Nomina Sacra in To Theodore

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:30 pm

Just sent an email off to the author of that book. So now we have 3 things to reconcile:

1. a 1646 book
2. a seventeenth century handwriting
3. Mar Saba monastery near Bethlehem
4. the locale for the nomen sacrum Fayyum, Egypt

Hmmmm.

Right off the bat I see Voss took an interest in Egypt:

Isaac Vossius, Tabula continens cursum Nili (1666), in Isaac Vossius, De Nili et aliorum fluviorum origine (The Hague, Adrian Ulacq: 1666)

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Re: The Presence (and Absence) of Nomina Sacra in To Theodore

Post by Secret Alias » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:32 am

Davis on this nomen sacrum:
Great to hear from you and hope you’re well. These nomina sacr[a] are very widespread in usage [in Egypt]

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Re: The Presence (and Absence) of Nomina Sacra in To Theodore

Post by andrewcriddle » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:26 am

This maybe should be a new thread and maybe is sheer fantasy/misguided ingenuity.
However, I'll post it here.

The standard NS κύ has numeric value 420 found once in Mar Saba letter
The unusual NS κού has numeric value 490 found three times in Mar Saba letter.
There are three putative authors of the Mar Saba text. The purportedly 18th century incipit identifying the letter, the letter purportedly by Clement identifying the Gospel and the Gospel purportedly by Mark.
3x κού has numeric value 1470 +κύ has numeric value 1890
1890 is 3x the numeric value of μορτον (630)
Hence the three putative authors are all really μορτον


Andrew Criddle

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Secret Alias
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Re: The Presence (and Absence) of Nomina Sacra in To Theodore

Post by Secret Alias » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:21 am

You are the coolest guy. I love this. I might not agree with morton being the best solution. But I love it anyway. Amazingly ingenious.

First of all. And you know I am really quite dense. Is that the right number and order of nomina sacra? I was just corresponding about this as I finish my paper. Is it kou, ku, kou, kou?

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Re: The Presence (and Absence) of Nomina Sacra in To Theodore

Post by Secret Alias » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:23 am

BTW I told Geoffrey about your argument for why the Letter to Theodore can only be as old as the Philosophumena. I thought it would help out his argument about it being a post-Eusebian forgery. You know I am not very smart though so who knows if he can make sense of what I said about your theory. So I just mentioned that he should contact you. I like to help people the way people have helped me. As we say in America 'pass it forward (even though my wife didn't pass it forward today when someone paid for our Starbucks because last time she did it it turned out there was a van full of football players and the bill was $50).

Of course I think most scholars find me annoying and do there best to ignore me. After our chat he said something like 'well if I don't respond to your email don't take it personally.' I don't. It's funny though. Still want to help him out.

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