ONLY after the 70 CE the concept of Messiah implied INCREASINGLY a belief in a figure who’s recently been ON EARTH

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Giuseppe
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Re: ONLY after the 70 CE the concept of Messiah implied INCREASINGLY a belief in a figure who’s recently been ON EARTH

Post by Giuseppe »

So Neil:

The Problem
Such, in outline, are the flaws that I see in the evidence that is usually cited to claim that early first century Palestine was experiencing a wave of messianic fervour.

The evidence for such a social phenomenon at that time and place simply does not exist. The data that is said to be that evidence is, I submit, only testimony to such a movement if we read our preconceptions into Josephus and other writings.

https://vridar.org/2017/02/03/myth-of-p ... -of-jesus/

Whst escapes to Neil is what matters is not what really happened in Judaea, since the fact is established that the Jews had a lot of different views about the Messiah. What matters is what the Romans thought that happened in Judea.

And Josephus was their only source of information (to judge from Tacitus and Suetonius's dependence on Josephus) about this Roman meme of the Messiah as only earthly conqueror.

Hence, "Mark" (author) had to conform himself to the Roman needs that Messiah had to be earthly.

In short:

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Giuseppe
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Re: ONLY after the 70 CE the concept of Messiah implied INCREASINGLY a belief in a figure who’s recently been ON EARTH

Post by Giuseppe »

Always Neil from the link above:

Josephus speaks of an ambiguous prophecy that supposedly animated many rebels during the War. But we have no idea where that prophecy comes from or any indication that it had anything to do with a “messiah” figure.



Even more so, the "ambiguous prophecy" introduced the "Messiah meme" in the Roman minds: the false idea that the Jews had fused strictly their spiritual hopes with an earthly figure.

No earthly messiah? No Christian religion.
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Giuseppe
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Re: ONLY after the 70 CE the concept of Messiah implied INCREASINGLY a belief in a figure who’s recently been ON EARTH

Post by Giuseppe »

The Barabbas episode could well be the trace of an oldest resistance against the idea that Jesus had to be "messiahnized"/romanized, i.e. confused strictly with the earthly Messiah.

Barabbas was anti-Roman insofar he was not the one called Christ.

Insofar he didn't fit the Roman view of the Messiah as earthly (remember that Bar-Abbas was the Marcionite "Son of Father": not an earthly figure).
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Giuseppe
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Re: ONLY after the 70 CE the concept of Messiah implied INCREASINGLY a belief in a figure who’s recently been ON EARTH

Post by Giuseppe »

Add to this the fact that the Romans were a pragmatic people: they couldn't imagine so too much easily a Messiah "divine too divine".
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Giuseppe
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Re: ONLY after the 70 CE the concept of Messiah implied INCREASINGLY a belief in a figure who’s recently been ON EARTH

Post by Giuseppe »

'John' (author) confesses WHY a Gospel has been written:

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name

(John 20:31)

Do you need other witnesses about WHY a Gospel was written ?
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