The coming of the Lord YHWH...

[rgprice]

There are many statements about the coming of the Lord prior to Christianity. I've always found in odd that Paul called Joshua "Lord Joshua". In the Septuagint the name YHWH was typically translated as Kyrios, which means Lord. So, generally, YHWH = Lord. The name Yeshu'a means "YHWH is salvation". So Paul is saying the Lord YHWH is salvation.

This idea of calling a person Lord is very foreign to Judaism (as far as I know). Is it then possible that prophecies about the coming of the Lord YHWH, and a movement around the expected final judgement of the Lord YHWH accidently morphed, perhaps through Gentile god-fearers, into a cult around the coming of the Lord Yeshu'a?

The odd thing is that I don't even know of any other examples of a messiah being called the Lord. No one was called the Lord except YHWH as far as I know. And by chance, we then have Paul worshiping this figure called "the Lord YHWH saves". WTF?!

Like, linguistically, how likely is it to mix up YHWH with Yeshu'a, in Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek? (not very leikly in Greek I imagine).

[Ben C. Smith]

There are many statements about the coming of the Lord prior to Christianity. .... In the Septuagint the name YHWH was typically translated as Kyrios, which means Lord. So, generally, YHWH = Lord. The name Yeshu'a means "YHWH is salvation".

All true.

So Paul is saying the Lord YHWH is salvation.

Not in Greek. One has to know the Hebrew to see the connection to salvation.

This idea of calling a person Lord is very foreign to Judaism (as far as I know).

I am not sure what this means. In Hebrew, וַֽאדֹנִ֖י (adonai) means "lord," and people get called that all the time in the Hebrew scriptures.

So the situation between Hebrew and Greek is asymmetrical. YHWH generally got translated in the LXX/OG as κύριος, but so did וַֽאדֹנִ֖י. So κύριος can lead back to either in the Hebrew; all down to context.

Is it then possible that prophecies about the coming of the Lord YHWH, and a movement around the expected final judgement of the Lord YHWH accidently morphed, perhaps through Gentile god-fearers, into a cult around the coming of the Lord Yeshu'a?

There were certainly Jews and Christians who knew enough Hebrew to know what the name Jesus/Joshua meant linguistically. Ordinary usage of that name would not suggest such a connection, but the etymology would.

The odd thing is that I don't even know of any other examples of a messiah being called the Lord.

What do you make of the Odes of Solomon? Is the Lord Messiah in the Odes a reference to Jesus?

[Irish1975]

Maybe it's the same dual-God setup in the OT and the NT, just with different names.

Jesus : The Father :: Yahweh : The Most High.

Godhead means omnipotence, transcendence, creation, infinity, beyond-good-and-evil, and indifference to the fate of humans. These are traits of the Most High and of the Father.

Lordship means rule, sovereignty, active control, covenant, providence, and care for humans or at least their prayers. In short, a god who can be bothered to deal with human affairs. These are traits that belong to Yahweh and Jesus Christ.

God Most High, AKA the Father, ἐξ οὗ τὰ πάντα (1 Cor 8:6), is far too great, transcendent, or simply busy to be engaged in providential matters. Therefore he sends his son, YHWH/Jesus, to look after the chosen ones on earth.

There is a slight wrinkle in that the Gospels make the Father just as caring and providential as the Lord Jesus. Paul too prays to "Abba." But the Father is nonetheless a dark and remote figure even in the NT.

[Secret Alias]

a messiah being called the Lord.

It's worth pointing out Irenaeus's discussion about Jesus being 'almost 50' and therefore must have been a magister in Latin. The original discussion was originally in Greek. I think κυριος is the underlying terminology. The important thing to see here is that in modern Greek as well as ancient Greek κυριος means master as well as mister. 'You da man' as they say in certain American slang. While 'sexism' is a bad thing in the contemporary cultural landscape there was a time where being a man, being a master, was the ultimate thing in the universe. To that end, κυριος doesn't just mean Lord but master, and not just master but mister or sir. As such it would be perfectly natural to address the messiah with this terminology. I wonder if אדני might help your reconciliation with the terminology. Abraham is called אדני. It also has the same connotation - i.e. master, sir and happens to be interchangeable with the Tetragrammaton.

[rgprice]

Far as I know, Odes of Solomon is considered to be Christian.

[davidmartin]

The Odes are Jewish-Christian, and so are worthless to the study of Christian origins

Paul doesn't dwell much or at all on any final judgement which is different from the later Christian theology. To Paul Jesus simply returns and lifts up his followers into heaven with wrath coming to opponents like the postman delivers your letters. He never talks of a great future judgement only a return of Jesus to collect his followers which Revelation calls the rapture and adds a load of extra heavy duty end times beliefs that are never in Paul, like for example, the concept of hell