On the Epistle to the Hebrews

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MrMacSon
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On the Epistle to the Hebrews

Post by MrMacSon »

This started as a response after reading a post by Bernard on another thread (which is modified here), and after doing some more reading; but became a bit bigger; amateur exegesis even ... read at your own peril ... comments however scathing welcome ...

Bernard Muller wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:37 pm
"Jesus means "the salvation of the Lord", being the name of the most excellent possible character" (Philo of Alexandria, On the Change of Names, ch. XXI) See Philippians 2:9 and Hebrews 1:4:

Note: I think Philippians 2:6-11 was initially from Apollos of Alexandria, the most probable author of 'Hebrews':

Php 2:6 [to] 11 v.8 "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death.

[Heb 5:8 "... he learned obedience from what he suffered ..."]

[Phil. 2.9]` ... Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,

[Heb1:4b "as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs."]

[Phil. 2.10] that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Cordially, Bernard

Hebrews 1 is about The Son. The full Hebrews 1:4 is

So 'he' became as much superior to the angels as the name 'he' has inherited is superior to theirs.

Yet, 'the name' is not specified in Hebrews 1 (but a name is revered in Psalm 8, a few verses of which are cited in Hebrews 2, see later)

Hebrews 1 quotes lots of Hebrew Bible, probably from the LXX/Septuagint -

  1. Hebrews 1:5a . = . Psalm 2:7
  2. Hebrews 1:5b . = . 2 Samuel 7:14; 1 Chron. 17:13
  3. Hebrews 1:6 =. = . Deut. 32:43 (see Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint)
  4. Hebrews 1:7 =. = . Psalm 104:4
  5. Hebrews 1:9 =. = . Psalm 45:6,7
  6. Hebrews 1:12= = . Psalm 102:25-27
  7. Hebrews 1:13= = . Psalm 110:1

ie. half of Hebrews 1 is from the Hebrew Bible, probably from the LXX/Septuagint (as is Hebrews 2, see below the line below)1


The full Hebrews 5:8 is

Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered


And previously in Hebrews 5

.
5 In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him,

....“You are my Son;
........today I have become your Father.” [Psalm 2:7]

6 And he says in another place,

....“You are a priest forever,
........in the order of Melchizedek.”[Psalm 110.4]
.


It all comes across as reaffirming a type, via new midrash/im





1 Hebrews 2

.
5 It is not to angels that He has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.
6 But there is a place where someone has testified:

........“What is mankind that you are mindful of them,
.......... a son of man that you care for him? [Psalm 8:4]

...7...You made them a little lower than the angels;
..........you crowned them with glory and honor [Psalm 8:5]

...8...and put everything under their feet.” [Psalm 8:6b]

In putting everything under Him/them, God left nothing that is not subject to Him/them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to Him/them. 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory2 and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
.

2 I googled 'crowned with glory' and the results on the first page pointed to Heb 5:9. There was the occasional mention of Psalm 8:5,3 which is of course also in Heb 5:7. There's also a hint of 'crowning with glory' in Zech 6:11 -

11 Take the silver and gold and make a crown, and set it on the head of the high priest, Joshua son of Jozadak


3 Psalm 8 in its entirety -

.
1 .Lord, our Lord,
.....how majestic is your name in all the earth!

...You have set your glory
.....in the heavens.

2 .Through the praise of children and infants
.....you have established a stronghold against your enemies,
.....to silence the foe and the avenger.

3 .When I consider your heavens,
.....the work of your fingers,
.....the moon and the stars,
.....which you have set in place,

4 .what is mankind that you are mindful of him/them,
.....human beings that you care for him/them?

5 .You have made him/them a little lower than the angels/God
.....and crowned him/them with glory and honor.

6 .You made them rulers over the works of your hands;
.....you put everything under his/their feet:

7. all flocks and herds,
.....and the animals of the wild,
8 .the birds in the sky,
.....and the fish in the sea,
.....all that swim the paths of the seas.

9 .Lord, our Lord,
.....how majestic is your name in all the earth!
.


Going from Psalm 8 to Hebrews, eg. to Hebrews 2, it's as if they're anthropomorphising God (who they had already personified with 'Him').


And as one goes from chapter to chapter of Hebrews, it seems clear the author increasingly reifies and promotes Jesus,

eg. promoting Jesus over Moses in Hebrews 3:3,5-6, -

Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself ...
5 “Moses was faithful as a servant in all God’s house” [Num. 12:7], bearing witness to what would be spoken by God in the future. 6 But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.

A lot of the rest of Hebrews 3 is Psalm 95:7-11, with Hebrews 3:15 repeating Psalm 95:7-8.

And it ends contrasting 'conviction in Christ' with 'those Moses did not lead out of the wilderness' -

Hebrews 3
.
14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we [should] hold - κατάσχωμεν - our original conviction firmly to the very end. 15 As has just been said:

....“Today, if you hear his voice,
.....do not harden your hearts
......as you did in the rebellion.” [Psalm 95:7,8]

16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter His rest4 - κατάπαυσιν - if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
.

4 Ps. 95:11b -

10 “ For forty years I was angry with that generation;
...... I said, ‘They are a people whose hearts go astray,
...... and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
...... ‘They shall never enter my rest.’.

[ is there a play on κατάπαυσιν (rest) and κατάσχωμεν (we should hold) ? ]

... to be continued ...
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Re: On the Epistle to the Hebrews

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Hebrews 4 continues 'they would/shall never enter His rest' of Heb 3:

[ is there a play on widespread use of κατάπαυσιν in Heb 3:11,18 (and in Heb 4) and κατάσχωμεν of Heb 3:14 ? ]

Hebrews 4
.
1 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest - κατάπαυσιν - still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed - εὐηγγελισμένοι - to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest - κατάπαυσιν - just as God has said,

....“So I declared on oath in my anger,
......‘They shall never enter my rest (κατάπαυσιν)’.” [Psalm 95:11; also in part in v. 5 ie. ‘They shall never enter my rest’]
.

There's lots more references to rest - κατάπαυσιν / κατέπαυσεν --

.
6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed - εὐηγγελισμένοι - to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

....“Today, if you hear his voice,
......do not harden your hearts.” [Psalm 95:7,8- again!]

8 For if Joshua - Ἰησοῦς / Iēsous - had given them rest - κατέπαυσεν - God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest - κατάπαυσιν - also rests - κατέπαυσεν - from their works/labor, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
.


.
14 ... since we have a great high priest who has ascended into [through the] heaven[s], Jesus - Ἰησοῦν / Iēsoun - the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
.

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Re: On the Epistle to the Hebrews

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Hebrews 5 riffs off the end of Hebrews 1, the end of 4 and, as previously noted, vv. from a couple of Psalms, one about the order of Melchizedek, while also humanising Jesus -

Hebrews 5 (NIV)

.
1 Every high priest is selected from among the people and is appointed to represent the people in matters related to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. 2 He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness. 3 This is why he has to offer sacrifices for his own sins, as well as for the sins of the people. 4 And no one takes this honor on himself, but he receives it when called by God, just as Aaron was.

5 In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him,

....“You are my Son;
........today I have become your Father.” [Psalm 2:7]

6 And he says in another place,

....“You are a priest forever,
........in the order of Melchizedek.”[Psalm 110.4]

7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth,1 he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
.

1 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/5.htm doesn't have Jesus' name here -

.
[He] in the days of the flesh of him ...

Ὃς ἐν ταῖς ἡμέραις τῆς σαρκὸς αὐτοῦ ...
.

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Re: On the Epistle to the Hebrews

Post by gryan »

MrMacSon wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:21 pm Hebrews 4...

8 For if Joshua - Ἰησοῦς / Iēsous - had given them rest - κατέπαυσεν - God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest - κατάπαυσιν - also rests - κατέπαυσεν - from their works/labor, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
.[/box]
It has been suggested by mainstream commentators that the previous failed attempt of Ἰησοῦς / Iēsous - to usher the wilderness generation into the promised land--Rest--was done on the basis of the ritual of circumcision portrayed in Joshua Ch. 5 (whole chapt):

"1Now when all the Amorite kings west of the Jordan and all the Canaanite kings along the coasta heard how the LORD had dried up the waters of the Jordan before the Israelites until they had crossed over,b their hearts melted and their spirits failed for fear of the Israelites.

2At that time the LORD said to Joshua, “Make flint knives and circumcise the sons of Israel once again.c” 3So Joshua made flint knives and circumcised the sons of Israel at Gibeath-haaraloth.d

4Now this is why Joshua circumcised them: All those who came out of Egypt—all the men of war—had died on the journey in the wilderness after they had left Egypt. 5Though all who had come out were circumcised, none of those born in the wilderness on the journey from Egypt had been circumcised.

6For the Israelites had wandered in the wilderness forty years, until all the nation’s men of war who had come out of Egypt had died, since they did not obey the LORD. So the LORD vowed never to let them see the land He had sworn to their fathers to give us, a land flowing with milk and honey. 7And Joshua raised up their sons in their place, and these were the ones he circumcised. Until this time they were still uncircumcised, since they had not been circumcised along the way.

8And after all the nation had been circumcised, they stayed there in the camp until they were healed.

9Then the LORD said to Joshua, “Today I have rolled away the reproach of Egypt from you.” So that place has been called Gilgale to this day.

10On the evening of the fourteenth day of the month, while the Israelites were camped at Gilgal on the plains of Jericho, they kept the Passover. 11The day after the Passover, on that very day, they ate unleavened bread and roasted grain from the produce of the land.

12And the day after they had eaten from the produce of the land, the manna ceased. There was no more manna for the Israelites, so that year they began to eat the crops of the land of Canaan."

------------------------------

The ritual of circumcision is a removal of "the flesh" (τὴν σάρκα) of the foreskin (Gen. 17:11). In the book of Joshua, it was also a preparation for war: Isrealites (circumcised) vs Canaanites (uncircumcised? Maybe. It’s complicated. https://biblicalsausage.wordpress.com/2 ... nt-canaan/).

The book of Hebrews does not mention circumcision vs uncircumcision, or Jew vs Greek--this may be because the author took Paul's words in Galatians seriously, and so the "seed Abraham" is defined by the faith of Christ alone--i.e. "those of Christ have crucified the the flesh with its passions and desires" (Gal. 5:24), not "circumcision of the flesh" of the foreskin (Gal. 6:13). For comparison see Gal. 3:28-29, "There is neither Jew nor Greek... If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed (τοῦ Ἀβραὰμ σπέρμα), and heirs according to the promise." And see also Heb. 2:9 and 16, "But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus (Ἰησοῦν Joshua?)... clearly he is not taking hold of angels, but of the seed of Abraham (σπέρματος Ἀβραὰμ)..."

The use of the name Iēsous at Heb. 4:8 (presumably alluding to the Iēsous of the LXX book of Joshua Ch.5) raises an interpretive question (which I have thought about not at all before this week): Are any/all other uses of the name Iēsous in the book of Hebrews (and in the Pauline corpus) also in some sense referencing this Joshua son of Nun?
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Re: On the Epistle to the Hebrews

Post by davidmartin »

During the days of his life on earth,1 he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission
Simple observation - this sounds more like Paul than the gospel Jesus
It mentions no miracles, no teachings, no doing good, and no real life as an empty vessel ("he emptied himself")
If it wasn't for the 4 gospels who would we think Jesus was?
The only role model would be Paul "Therefore I urge you to imitate me"

All this is fuel for the mythicist theory which is a solid theory, but i think can also be explained by the gospels originally being rejected by the Pauline inspired church when they came out. They did not originate them at first. Even the "Paul only" Marcion only accepted his neutered Luke and dismissed the other gospels and the 12 disciples.
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Re: On the Epistle to the Hebrews

Post by gryan »

MrMacSon wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:42 pm
1 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/5.htm doesn't have Jesus' name here -

.
[He] in the days of the flesh of him ...

Ὃς ἐν ταῖς ἡμέραις τῆς σαρκὸς αὐτοῦ ...
.

Cf 2 Cor.4:11 written by Paul and Timothy, where it says: "For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus (ἡ ζωὴ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ) also may be manifested in our mortal flesh (ἐν τῇ θνητῇ σαρκὶ ἡμῶν)."

This passage is a model for imitation: we "see" the life of Jesus when share in being given over to death so that the life is manifested in our mortal "flesh". As I read the image of Jesus in Hebrews, it is transparent to this very image of Jesus "we" see through reading the words of Paul and Timothy! Such a life manifests as spirit fruit, ie love and self-control and "faith working through love. There is no law against such love, for insofar as the whole "law" in concerned there is one word to focus on: "love your neighbor as yourself."

Another parallel passage related specifically to the ministry of Paul is found in Colossians 1:24: Now I [Paul] rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions in my flesh (ἐν τῇ σαρκί μου) for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

As readers, when we "see" Paul's suffering, we "see" Jesus as he is portrayed in Hebrews "in the days of his flesh"--suffering, and obedient.

The historical existence of a flesh and blood Jesus (ie with blood brothers) "in the days of his flesh" is not something the early Pauline school sought to prove (it was just assumed); rather, the main concern to announce why he had became "blood and flesh"--to make possible the imitation of his faithfulness in the church.

Even with the Gospels, we know very little about "historical" Jesus, since by historical standards of credibility, all humans are born by two human parents, they do not walk on water or do other such things, and their flesh decays after mortal death.
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Re: On the Epistle to the Hebrews

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To back track a bit,

Hebrews 1 opens -

.
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
.


One might wonder if Heb1:2 - "in these last days" - relates to any specific events, such as the Fall of the Second Temple, or even later


Then a lot of quoting of Psalms (and three other vv. from three other LXX books), as I noted in the OP, -

.
..5 . For to which of the angels did God ever say,

.........“You are my Son;
............ today I have become your Father”? . [Psalm 2:7]

....Or again,

.........“I will be his Father,
............ and he will be my Son”? . [2 Samuel 7:14; 1 Chron. 17:13]

..6 . And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

.........“Let all God’s angels worship him.” . [Deut. 32:43]

...7 . In speaking of the angels he says,

.........“He makes his angels spirits,
............ and his servants flames of fire.” . [Psalm 104:4]

..8 . But about the Son he says,

.........“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
............ a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
..9 .... You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
......... therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
............ by anointing you with the oil of joy.” .. [Psalm 45:6,7]

..10 . He also says,

.........“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
.......... and the heavens are the work of your hands.
..11 . They will perish, but you remain;
......... they will all wear out like a garment.
..12 . You will roll them up like a robe;
.......... like a garment they will be changed.
.......But you remain the same,
.......... and your years will never end.” . [Psalm 102:25-27]

..13 . To which of the angels did God ever say,

.......“Sit at my right hand
.......... until I make your enemies
.......... a footstool for your feet”? . [Psalm 110:1]

..14 . Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

.

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Re: On the Epistle to the Hebrews

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gryan wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:34 am The book of Hebrews does not mention circumcision vs uncircumcision, or Jew vs Greek ...
Yes, that's noteworthy.

The use of the name Iēsous at Heb. 4:8 (presumably alluding to the Iēsous of the LXX book of Joshua Ch.5) raises an interpretive question (which I have thought about not at all before this week): Are any/all other uses of the name Iēsous in the book of Hebrews (and in the Pauline corpus) also in some sense referencing this Joshua son of Nun?
Dunno. There are said to be a few different 'Joshua's' in the Hebrew Bible, too. [eta] Though of course it is generally (universally?) considered that Joshuas of the books of Exodus, Numbers & the book of Joshua is one & the same person
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Re: On the Epistle to the Hebrews

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MrMacSon wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:54 pm
Hebrews 1 opens -

.
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days1 he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
.

One might wonder if Heb1:2 - "in these last days" - relates to any specific events, such as the Fall of the Second Temple, or even later
.

1 A similar phrase, “to this day”, occurs in the book of Joshua -

.
It is clear from the book of Joshua itself that the reader’s perspective is assumed to be some time after the events related, as evident in the expression “to this day” (e.g., Josh 8:28-29; 9:27; 10:27). This feature indicates that the events are told, in some sense, to account for situations that exist later and that are already familiar to readers.

McConville, Gordon; Williams, Stephen (2010) Joshua (The Two Horizons New Testament Commentary) . Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co..


Similarly, one could say in these last days" would help reiterate God, "has spoken to us by his Son", and place urgency on following the message.


Previously, these authors, McConville and Williams, started their Introduction -

.
The book of Joshua occupies a pivotal place in the Old Testament’s opening narrative. It tells of the fulfilment of the promise of land for Israel, made to Abraham in Genesis (Gen 12:1-3). Thus it stands at the end of the Pentateuch (Genesis-Deuteronomy), which takes the reader from the creation of the world, through the election of Israel, its foundation as the covenant people of God, a vision for its social and religious life through law, and the death of Moses, to the point at which the people is equipped and ready to enter the land. Deuteronomy must be followed by something like Joshua if the history of Israel with God is to continue.2 Joshua is therefore not just a fulfilment, but also the presupposition of the account of the life of Israel that follows.

McConville, Gordon; Williams, Stephen (2010). Joshua
.

2 The authors note soon after that there's

"an important echo in Josh 8:30-35 of the ceremony commanded in Deuteronomy 27."

And

.
Since Joshua is offered to us in the setting of Genesis-Kings, its message has to be understood in that context too. That is, the possession of land must be considered in the context of its later loss; the existence of Israel as a nation is not presented as a permanent fact, but as something that could unravel, as history demonstrates (see also the final comment on 4:20-24). The Israel that became a nation in its own land could return to being a subject people in a land dominated by a foreign empire, and so have to find a new way of being God’s people. With Jewish people henceforth scattered permanently throughout the lands ... there would be no return to the situation portrayed in Joshua.
.

It's all very prophetic for the situation after the Fall of the Temple, or after the failed Bar Kokhba Revolt, and could/would likely have been read by the Jewish people as such.

and the way McConville and Williams portray Joshua in relation to is similar to the ''primary history'', Genesis-Kings, is similar to to how one might consider the early Christian texts in relation to Joshua and other texts of the Tanakh.
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Re: On the Epistle to the Hebrews

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Furthermore,

.
The prevailing scholarly view, however, is that Joshua is not a factual account of historical events ...

... Joshua is undoubtedly theological in character, since it aims, like much of the Old Testament, to persuade its audience to remain faithful to Yahweh, God of Israel. Theology and history, of course, are not necessarily at odds with each other. On the contrary, Christian theology has at its heart claims about events that happened in history. Even so, there is no formula for determining in advance the way in which theology and history relate to each other in any given text. The theological character of Joshua comes across strongly in certain narratives, not least chs. 3–6, which narrate the crossing of the Jordan and the siege and sacking of Jericho.

In the commentary that follows, it is suggested that this is not a straightforward factual account of the battle for a city, rather a demonstration that the people of Yahweh could not be resisted. A resistance by the people of Jericho is mentioned in 24:11, but there is nothing of this in ch. 6, suggesting that ch. 6 is stylized, composed for a very specific purpose (see comment there). If this is so, the question naturally arises for the modern reader why the ancient writer would write in such a way. A general answer lies in the obvious point that people in different times and places simply have different understandings of what is involved in telling history.

More specifically, the book of Joshua can be assigned to a genre of writing widely exemplified in the ancient Near East, namely the “conquest account,” whose purpose was to demonstrate that conquests were successfully undertaken at the behest of the particular nation’s god. Joshua then becomes Yahweh’s and Israel’s version of a kind of literature well known to people at the time. Such accounts were naturally shaped to the purpose of demonstrating the god’s supreme power over events.

None of this means that an Israelite conquest of Canaan did not happen. However, as we have observed, at the least the author of Joshua does not intend to furnish a realistic description of the taking of Jericho (though the same cannot be said about the account at Ai in ch. 8). The issue for theological interpretation therefore is: in what sense does the book of Joshua have to be “historical” in order to be valid theologically?

McConville, Gordon; Williams, Stephen (2010). Joshua (The Two Horizons New Testament Commentary). Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.

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