"a commonplace belief among historians of the early church that early Christianity did not emphasize Jesus’ crucifixion"

[MrMacSon]

Here's passages with ' crucified ' in Justin Martyr's First Apology

chapter XIII / 8

... we have been taught that the only honour that is worthy of Him is not to consume by fire what He has brought into being for our sustenance, but to use it for ourselves and those who need, and with gratitude to Him to offer thanks by invocations and hymns for our creation, and for all the means of health, and for the various qualities of the different kinds of things, and for the changes of the seasons; and to present before Him petitions for our existing again in incorruption through faith in Him. Our teacher of these things is Jesus Christ, who also was born for this purpose, and was crucified under Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judaea, in the times of Tiberius Caesar; and that we reasonably worship Him, having learned that He is the Son of the true God Himself, and holding Him in the second place, and the prophetic Spirit in the third, we will prove. For they proclaim our madness to consist in this, that we give to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all; for they do not discern the mystery that is herein, to which, as we make it plain to you, we pray you to give heed.

I'm quoting from https://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/ ... 0),_GM.pdf

... on page 10/57 it has in Greek, very last line: staurothenta. The Latin is on the next page, line 4, and says crucifixum (indeed).

Line 10 there says crucifixo indeed for the second occurrence, and its Greek equivalent is on line 7, staurothenti

chapter XXI / 21

And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter. For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribed to Jupiter: Mercury, the interpreting word and teacher of all; AEsculapius, who, though he was a great physician, was struck by a thunderbolt, and so ascended to heaven; and Bacchus too, after he had been torn limb from limb; and Hercules, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his toils; and the sons of Leda, and Dioscuri; and Perseus, son of Danae; and Bellerophon, who, though sprung from mortals, rose to heaven on the horse Pegasu ....

Page 17 there. Again, crucifixum versus staurothenta.

chapter XXII / 22

Moreover, the Son of God called Jesus, even if only a man by ordinary generation, yet, on account of His wisdom, is worthy to be called the Son of God; for all writers call God the Father of men and gods. And if we assert that the Word of God was born of God in a peculiar manner, different from ordinary generation, let this, as said above, be no extraordinary thing to you, who say that Mercury is the angelic word of God. But if any one objects that He was crucified, in this also He is on a par with those reputed sons of Jupiter of yours, who suffered as we have now enumerated ...

Page 18. Crucifixum versus estaurosthai

Thank you !

[GakuseiDon]

I'm still not sure there's the implication of the act of crucifixion there--as we would expect it--but there's certainly symbolism of crucifixion (including my recent focus, 'hands / arms outstretched').

I can't see any other reading possible for the passage below other than crucifixion:

"... he who explains their ceremonies by reference to a man punished by extreme suffering for his wickedness, and to the deadly wood of the cross, appropriates fitting altars for reprobate and wicked men, that they may worship what they deserve"

But the word 'crucifixion' is never used throughout for some reason. The response is "Crosses, moreover, we neither worship nor wish for."

[MrMacSon]

I can't see any other reading possible for the passage below other than crucifixion:

"... he who explains their ceremonies by reference to a man punished by extreme suffering for his wickedness, and to the deadly wood of the cross, appropriates fitting altars for reprobate and wicked men, that they may worship what they deserve"
.

Yep, fair enough. It'd be interesting to see it in the Greek ...

The response is "Crosses, moreover, we neither worship nor wish for."

Cheers.

[mlinssen]

I think it is a very valid thesis to claim that the Greek stauros became a Latin crucifix, and that the rest is history

Dunno if you should stake your claim on the stauros being Greek (other than that word) ...

But the crux of the matter could well be the Latin - good point

Wordplay pun o' the day goes to you! All of them LOL. I think we got this one

[MrMacSon]

J.M's Second Apology only has ' cruc ' once -

Chapter VI

... And His Son, who alone is properly called Son, the Word, who also was with Him and was begotten before the works, when at first He created and arranged all things by Him, is called Christ, in reference to His being anointed and God's ordering all things through Him; this name itself also containing an unknown significance; as also the appellation "God" is not a name, but an opinion implanted in the nature of men of a thing that can hardly be explained. But "Jesus," His name as man and Saviour, has also significance. For He was made man also, as we before said, having been conceived according to the will of God the Father, for the sake of believing men, and for the destruction of the demons. And now you can learn this from what is under your own observation. For numberless demoniacs throughout the whole world, and in your city, many of our Christian men exorcising them [demoniacs] in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, have healed and do heal, rendering helpless and driving the possessing devils out of the men, though they could not be cured by all the other exorcists, and those who used incantations and drugs.

[MrMacSon]

Dialogue with Trypho has ' cruc ' 74 times

[Ben C. Smith]

Yep, fair enough. It'd be interesting to see it in the Greek ...

Here is the original Latin.

[mlinssen]

Yep, fair enough. It'd be interesting to see it in the Greek ...

Here is the original Latin.

You're the greatest, Ben!

Et qui hominem summo supplicio pro facinore punitum et crucis ligna feralia eorum caerimonias fabulatur, congruentia perditis sceleratisque tribuit altaria, ut id colant quod merentur

I think we will find stauros in every single Greek text, and crux in every single Latin one

And yes, only 1 crux in Justin Martyr's Second Apology, then again it's only some 4,700 words as opposed to First Apology with 21,500,and a very different topic

[mlinssen]

Quick complete summary of Octavius then. Another day gone down the drain anyway

Chapter 9
Et qui hominem summo supplicio pro facinore punitum et crucis ligna feralia eorum caerimonias fabulatur, congruentia perditis sceleratisque tribuit altaria, ut id colant quod merentur.
... and he who explains their ceremonies by reference to a man punished by extreme suffering for his wickedness, and to the deadly wood of the cross, appropriates fitting altars for reprobate and wicked men, that they may worship what they deserve.

Chapter 12
Ecce vobis minae, supplicia, tormenta, et iam non adorandae sed subeundae cruces, ignes etiam quos et praedicitis et timetis: ubi deus ille, qui subvenire revivescentibus potest, viventibus non potest?
Lo, for you there are threats, punishments, tortures, and crosses; and that no longer as objects of adoration, but as tortures to be undergone; fires also, which you both predict and fear. Where is that God who is able to help you when you come to life again, since he cannot help you while you are in this life?

Chapter 29
"Nam quod religioni nostrae hominem noxium et crucem eius adscribitis, longe de vicinia veritatis erratis, qui putatis deum credi aut meruisse noxium aut potuisse terrenum.
For in that you attribute to our religion the worship of a criminal and his cross, you wander far from the neighbourhood of the truth, in thinking either that a criminal deserved, or that an earthly being was able, to be believed God.
...
"Cruces etiam nec colimus nec optamus.
Crosses, moreover, we neither worship nor wish for.
Vos plane, qui ligneos deos consecratis, cruces ligneas ut deorum vestrorum partes forsitan adoratis.
You, indeed, who consecrate gods of wood, adore wooden crosses perhaps as parts of your gods.
Nam et signa ipsa et cantabra et vexilla castrorum quid aliud quam inauratae cruces sunt et ornatae?
For your very standards, as well as your banners; and flags of your camp, what else are they but crosses glided and adorned?
Tropaea vestra victricia non tantum simplicis crucis faciem, verum et adfixi hominis imitantur.
Your victorious trophies not only imitate the appearance of a simple cross, but also that of a man affixed to it.
Signum sane crucis naturaliter visimus in navi, cum velis tumentibus vehitur, cum expansis palmulis labitur: et cum erigitur iugum, crucis signum est, et cum homo porrectis manibus deum pura mente veneratur.
We assuredly see the sign of a cross, naturally, in the ship when it is carried along with swelling sails, when it glides forward with expanded oars; and when the military yoke is lifted up, it is the sign of a cross; and when a man adores God with a pure mind, with hands outstretched.
Ita signo crucis aut ratio naturalis innititur aut vestra religio formatur.
Thus the sign of the cross either is sustained by a natural reason, or your own religion is formed with respect to it.

Yellow highlight for the infamous outstretched hands

Chapter 35

EDIT: slap on the wrist here by MrMacSon viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7681&start=30#p118771
This does have 'cruc' but the word means torments in this context. Whoops

"Et tamen admonentur homines doctissimorum libris et carminibus poetarum illius ignei fluminis et de Stygia palude saepius ambientis ardoris, quae cruciatibus aeternis praeparata, et daemonum indiciis et de oraculis prophetarum cognita, tradiderunt.
And yet men are admonished in the books and poems of the most learned poets of that fiery river, and of the heat flowing in manifold turns from the Stygian marsh — things which, prepared for eternal torments, and known to them by the information of demons and from the oracles of their prophets, they have delivered to us.

Chapter 37
Pueri et mulierculae nostrae cruces et tormenta, feras et omnes suppliciorum terriculas inspirata patientia doloris inludunt.
Yet boys and young women among us treat with contempt crosses and tortures, wild beasts, and all the bugbears of punishments, with the inspired patience of suffering.

The end

Have you _really_ looked at the wikipedia picture by the way? Talking about "outstretched hands". I love the two gestures of the right hand

Just flipping you the bird. And the French know what to make of the other sign

Justin_Martyr.jpg (406.88 KiB) Viewed 3857 times

[GakuseiDon]

You're the greatest, Ben!

Et qui hominem summo supplicio pro facinore punitum et crucis ligna feralia eorum caerimonias fabulatur, congruentia perditis sceleratisque tribuit altaria, ut id colant quod merentur

I think we will find stauros in every single Greek text, and crux in every single Latin one

(I totally agree with you about Ben!) If in fact stauros is used in the Greek texts, then: given the emphasis of the "outstretched hands", etc in the texts, that seems to suggest that in context the word "stauros" might include a cross-shape when it came to capital punishment. I.e. being impaled on a stake included outstretched hands, thus a cross shape, in ancient eyes.