Page 9 of 12
Re: "a commonplace belief among historians of the early church that early Christianity did not emphasize Jesus’ crucifix
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:53 am
by Ben C. Smith
mlinssen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:48 amIt says 'in crucem' and I would expect 'ad crucem' for tying someone 'to' a cross. If, in fact, crux means cross here - but 'in' here seems to mean 'into', and this isn't a clear-cut case of "crucifying someone as we know it"
Why would you expect that?
If the Latin
in means "into" here, are you saying that this poor fellow was somehow inserted
into a cross/stake (
in crucem)? How would that work?
Re: "a commonplace belief among historians of the early church that early Christianity did not emphasize Jesus’ crucifix
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:12 am
by mlinssen
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:53 am
mlinssen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:48 amIt says 'in crucem' and I would expect 'ad crucem' for tying someone 'to' a cross. If, in fact, crux means cross here - but 'in' here seems to mean 'into', and this isn't a clear-cut case of "crucifying someone as we know it"
Why would you expect that?
If the Latin
in means "into" here, are you saying that this poor fellow was somehow inserted
into a cross/stake (
in crucem)? How would that work?
I'm going to ignore you for the day Ben. You seem to have an off-day. Get well soon!
Re: "a commonplace belief among historians of the early church that early Christianity did not emphasize Jesus’ crucifix
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:42 am
by Ben C. Smith
mlinssen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:48 amIt says 'in crucem' and I would expect 'ad crucem' for tying someone 'to' a cross. If, in fact, crux means cross here - but 'in' here seems to mean 'into', and this isn't a clear-cut case of "crucifying someone as we know it"
mlinssen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:12 amI'm going to ignore you for the day Ben.
You seem to have an off-day. Get well soon!
There is truth to what Martijn says here about me having an off day. I certainly have less of a filter right now than I usually do.
My knowledge of Latin, however, remains unimpaired, and (for the sake of those keeping up with such matters) Martijn's expectations concerning the Latin prepositions
ad and
in are ungrounded.
Re: "a commonplace belief among historians of the early church that early Christianity did not emphasize Jesus’ crucifix
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:32 pm
by mlinssen
Well, I had 5 years of Latin in grammar school but it's been a while. Ad versus in is a difficult beast, and Perseus has a mini bible on the both of them
To make a long story short: to tie on in or to a crucem is not a very convincing example of Hannibal beating the canonicals to it
I could give you a link to some sites to give you an idea how you tie people "into a cross", Ben, but those definitely are NSFW
Re: "a commonplace belief among historians of the early church that early Christianity did not emphasize Jesus’ crucifix
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:49 pm
by Ben C. Smith
Well, I had 5 years of Latin in grammar school but it's been a while. Ad versus in is a difficult beast, and Perseus has a mini bible on the both of them
To make a long story short: to tie on in or to a crucem is not a very convincing example of Hannibal beating the canonicals to it
I could give you a link to some sites to give you an idea how you tie people "into a cross", Ben, but those definitely are NSFW
The point remains that, if you want to say (in Latin) that you have affixed someone
to a stake/cross,
in crucem is a perfectly valid way of putting it.
Re: "a commonplace belief among historians of the early church that early Christianity did not emphasize Jesus’ crucifix
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:37 pm
by MrMacSon
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:49 pm
The point remains that, if you want to say (in Latin) that you have affixed someone
to a stake/cross,
in crucem is a perfectly valid way of putting it.
Where has anyone actually said
they did that? Where have the Church Fathers recounted someone as doing that?
Re: "a commonplace belief among historians of the early church that early Christianity did not emphasize Jesus’ crucifix
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:08 pm
by Ben C. Smith
MrMacSon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:37 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:49 pm
The point remains that, if you want to say (in Latin) that you have affixed someone
to a stake/cross,
in crucem is a perfectly valid way of putting it.
Where has anyone actually said
they did that? Where have the Church Fathers recounted someone as doing that?
Sorry, I am not sure what you are asking.
Re: "a commonplace belief among historians of the early church that early Christianity did not emphasize Jesus’ crucifix
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:18 pm
by MrMacSon
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:08 pm
MrMacSon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:37 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:49 pm
The point remains that, if you want to say (in Latin) that you have affixed someone
to a stake/cross,
in crucem is a perfectly valid way of putting it.
Where has anyone actually said
they did that? Where have the Church Fathers recounted someone as doing that?
Sorry, I am not sure what you are asking.
Where have the Church Fathers recounted someone as 'affixed to a stake/cross',
in crucem ?
Re: "a commonplace belief among historians of the early church that early Christianity did not emphasize Jesus’ crucifix
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:24 pm
by Ben C. Smith
MrMacSon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:18 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:08 pm
MrMacSon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:37 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:49 pm
The point remains that, if you want to say (in Latin) that you have affixed someone
to a stake/cross,
in crucem is a perfectly valid way of putting it.
Where has anyone actually said
they did that? Where have the Church Fathers recounted someone as doing that?
Sorry, I am not sure what you are asking.
Where have the Church Fathers recounted someone as 'affixed to a stake/cross',
in crucem ?
The church fathers? Offhand, I am not sure. Why?
Re: "a commonplace belief among historians of the early church that early Christianity did not emphasize Jesus’ crucifix
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:32 pm
by MrMacSon