hakeem wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:30 pm
The Gospel of Thomas is a very late writing. The sayings of Jesus in gThomas are embellishments of earlier sources or fabrications by the unknown author.
Look at Gospel of Thomas 100--
He said to them, "Give the emperor what belongs to the emperor, give God what belongs to God, and give me what is mine.
Now, Look Mark 12, Mattew 21 and Luke 20
Mark 12.17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's
Matthew 22:21.......Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Luke 20:25
And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.
None of the Gospels claimed Jesus said
"and give me what is mine".
This is evidence that gThomas was later than the Gospels.
Another example is gThomas 107.
Gospel of Thomas
107 Jesus said, The kingdom is like a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the ninety- nine and looked for the one until he found it. After he had toiled, he said to the sheep, 'I love you more than the ninety- nine.'
Again, we have gThomas with part of a saying of Jesus which is not found in the Gospels.
The NT Gospels do not contain the saying where Jesus said to the sheep
'I love you more than the ninety- nine.'[/u]
Matthew 18:12
How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray
The pattern is clear the supposed sayings of Jesus in gThomas are later than the Gospel and are unknown by early Christian writings.
The sayings of Jesus in gThomas are embellishments of earlier sources or fabrications by the unknown author.
So, what you are claiming is that Thomas has parts in his text that the canonicals don't have - and hence he is later?
What I assume you are referring to is the well-known adagium of "(not) more simple version", i.e. a more basic version, be that in quantity or quality, its likely to be more original.
That is a very reasonable argument really, and one of the more straightforward ones when it comes to textual criticism
But then a great part of the NT is later than Thomas as he doesn't explain any parable, he just has them and that's it, whereas the canonicals go to great length at not only adding to them, but also explaining them - even justifying them by pointing to the Tanakh, regardless of whether some of those pointers are valid or not, or fabricated
I'll just give one example in order to prevent citing a hundred pages or so:
Matthew 5:3 And He spoke to them many things in parables, saying, “Behold, the one sowing went out to sow.
4 And in his sowing, indeed some fell along the road, and the birds having come, devoured them.
5 And other fell upon the rocky places where it did not have much soil. And it sprang up immediately, through having no depth of soil.
6 And the sun having risen, they were scorched, and through not having root, were dried up.
7 And other fell upon the thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them.
8 And other fell upon the good soil and were yielding fruit—indeed some a hundredfold, and some sixty, and some thirty.
9 The one having ears, let him hear!”
10 And the disciples having approached, said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?
11 And answering He said to them, “Because it has been granted to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of the heavens, but to them it has not been granted.
12 For whoever has, to him will be given, and he will be in abundance. And whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.
13 Because of this I speak to them in parables: ‘Because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.’
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, saying: ‘In hearing you will hear and never understand; and in seeing you will see and never perceive.
15 For the heart of this people has grown dull, and they barely hear with the ears, and they have closed their eyes, lest ever they should see with the eyes, and they should hear with the ears, and they should understand with the heart, and should turn, and I will heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
17 For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see, and did not see; and to hear what you hear, and did not hear.
18 You, therefore, hear the parable of the one having sown: 19 Everyone hearing the word of the kingdom and not understanding, the evil one comes and snatches away that having been sown in his heart. This is the one having been sown on the path.
20 And the one having been sown upon the rocky places, this is the one hearing the word and immediately receiving it with joy.
21 And he has in himself no root, but is temporary. And having come tribulation or persecution on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
22 And the one having been sown among the thorns, this is the one hearing the word, but the care of this present age and the deceit of riches choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
23 But the one having been sown on the good soil, this is the one hearing the word and understanding, who indeed brings forth fruit and produces—indeed, some a hundredfold, and some sixty, and some thirty.”
Thomas logion 9
9 said IS : lo-behold did he go-forth viz. he-who throw-sows
did he fill-hands his did he cast
did some(PL) Whilst fall upon the(F) path did they come viz. the(PL) bird did they gather them
some(PL) another did they fall upon the(F) Rock and not they take root downward to the earth and not they put-forth heads-of-grain upward to the(F) heaven
and some(PL) another did they fall upon the(PL) acacia-nilotica did they choke the seed and did the worm eat them
and did some(PL) another fall upon the earth good and did he give Fruit upward to the(F) heaven good
did he come of sixty to arrow and hundred twenty to arrow
I've emphasised the part of Matthew that is the parable itself. And I have highlighted the part that they added here...
and are unknown by early Christian writings.
Those are unknown to Thomas and early gnostic writings. In fact, where Thomas frequently cites from the Tanakh, he doesn't cite anything from the NT.
And while he clearly rejects fasting, praying, giving alms, he doesn't say a single word about the death of Jesus or any claims that the protagonist of the NT makes
Both your arguments are very valid ones, hakeem, but the first one works against you rather than for you, as almost every copy of Thomas in the NT is an embellishment of his. For the second one to be accepted in full, one would have to assume that the Church Fathers were objective historians who dedicated themselves to accurately describing every text that appeared.
Next to that, they never mention the gospel of Thomas by name at all, not even in the 3rd, 4th, 5th century or whatnot. They never mention it at all