Sleeper awake!

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Geocalyx
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:59 pm

Re: Sleeper awake!

Post by Geocalyx » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:30 pm

There are many versions of Gnosticism like I said. The NH papers have at least three,
And you know this because you've read other stuff, but not the NHL.

Read the texts codex-to-codex. So these guys had what, three or four mystery religion per holy book, now pick at leisure?

Stop tailoring the world to fit your argument; one can't denounce what they know nothing about.
My money is on Tatian. Once he included John in his harmony the damage was done and even while some wanted John not to be included in the official cannon they were kind of stuck with it.
On this note, I'm somewhat stumped by the discussion surrounding John 1:18. If I get this right, the Orthodox traditionally consider it a gnostic corruption of the original text..?

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DCHindley
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Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Sleeper awake!

Post by DCHindley » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:11 am

Geocalyx wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:30 pm
... I'm somewhat stumped by the discussion surrounding John 1:18. If I get this right, the Orthodox traditionally consider it a gnostic corruption of the original text..?
No, I do not think so. There was some resistance about John in some quarters, because it uses the term "Paraclete" which was the same, or similar, entity the Montanists claimed inspired their male and female prophets. Some folks claimed that the Gospel of John must consequently have been written by a Montanist and could not then be of apostolic origin. Chicken or Egg?

Where John was accepted by the orthodox, vs 1:18 was embraced, as it was employed in the battles to hammer out a systemic theology of Jesus Christ over the next several hundred years. Now the earlier codices and fragments favor calling the entity "the only begotten god (or divine principal)," but plenty of folks interpreted this as meaning Jesus Christ as Son of God and read here "only-begotten Son (or son of God)." These variants are spelled out in the GNT apparatus, but it can get confusing. I have better luck with a UBS edition of Nestle/Aland, as the apparatus is simplified.

DCH

cora
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:57 pm

Re: Sleeper awake!

Post by cora » Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:24 pm

I read about 50% of it. Direct your aggression to someone else, yourself for instance.

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