'bar Jonah' in the Gospels

[RecoveringScot]

Symeon bar Jonah (Simon Peter, Peter) has a fascinating name. 'Symeon' has various connotations (hearing, hear etc.) which have been amply explored by various commenators yet 'bar Jonah' hasn't struck me in what I've read as being so fortunate in its interpretations (son of Jonas, son of John usually).

Yet, here we have a character in the story who is introduced not long after the baptism of Jesus, where the Holy Spirit 'in the form of a dove' descends and either 'rests upon' or 'enters into' Jesus accompanied by a booming declaration by God of 'sonship'. And this character's Hebrew name includes the Hebrew name for 'dove'. (Jonah = dove).

In Matthew 16:4 the only sign that 'this generation' will get is 'τὸ σημεῖον Ἰωνᾶ' usually translated as 'the sign of (the prophet) Jonah'. But aren't the last two words suspiciously similar to Symeon's own name? That is while the apparent referent is OT Jonah, what the sign really is ' is Symeon bar Jonah. It's a pun (but was Matthew aware of it?). Of course the pun only works in Greek.

What I would like to know is, could 'bar Jonah' or ('bar Yonah' 'bar iona') be a 'messianic' (or associative in terms of devotion) title 'Son of the Dove' or is that ruled out in Hebrew (or Aramaic)?

I'm also charmed by the idea that the dove that Noah sent out and which failed to return may have made landfall in the Baptism story (was it Michael Goulder who floated that idea? I can't remember). Go on guys, knock it down!

[GakuseiDon]

I'm also charmed by the idea that the dove that Noah sent out and which failed to return may have made landfall in the Baptism story (was it Michael Goulder who floated that idea? I can't remember). Go on guys, knock it down!

Hitchen's razor

[RecoveringScot]

I'm also charmed by the idea that the dove that Noah sent out and which failed to return may have made landfall in the Baptism story (was it Michael Goulder who floated that idea? I can't remember). Go on guys, knock it down!

Hitchen's razor

Yes I know. Sorry.

My question about the Hebrew possibilities is serious though. Could 'bar Jonah' be analagous to, say,'bar Kokhba'? That sort of thing. I can't judge for I have no Hebrew.

Cheers

[andrewcriddle]

My question about the Hebrew possibilities is serious though. Could 'bar Jonah' be analagous to, say,'bar Kokhba'? That sort of thing. I can't judge for I have no Hebrew.

Cheers

FWIW bar Jonah and bar Kokhba are Aramaic. Hebrew would use ben not bar (Arabic uses bin),

Andrew Criddle

[RecoveringScot]

My question about the Hebrew possibilities is serious though. Could 'bar Jonah' be analagous to, say,'bar Kokhba'? That sort of thing. I can't judge for I have no Hebrew.

Cheers

FWIW bar Jonah and bar Kokhba are Aramaic. Hebrew would use ben not bar (Arabic uses bin),

Andrew Criddle

Thanks Andrew,

I did know that but forgot it.

So does that mean that in Aramaic, the similar sense of the construction would be possible?