12 Jewish Apostles/Legates of the Patriarch of Tiberias: "the office probably existed before the fall of Jerusalem"

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Giuseppe
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12 Jewish Apostles/Legates of the Patriarch of Tiberias: "the office probably existed before the fall of Jerusalem"

Post by Giuseppe »


Yet, in some points, all of Hebrew blood, rich and poor, high and low, concurred in their faithful attachment to their synagogue their strict subordination to their religious teachers, and through their synagogue and teachers to the great spiritual head of their community, the Patriarch of Tiberias. Wnerever jews resided, a synagogue might be, and usually was, formed. Every synagogue was visited in turn by the Legate of the Patriarch. These legates were called apostles: the office probably existed before the fall of Jerusalem: the apostle collected the contributions for the temple. They had authority to regulate all differences which might arise, and to receive the revenue of the Patriarch. Every year a proclamation was made by sound of trumpet, in every synagogue, commanding the payment of the tribute: its final day ofsettlement was on the last of May. On the return of these legates they informed the Patriarch of the state of the synagogues, assisted him as counsellors, and held a distinguished rank among the people. The early Christians accuse the Jews of having sent messengers throughout the world, for the purpose of anathematising them in their synagogues, and uttering a solemn curse upon the name of Jesus Christ. It is by no means unlikely that these legates received instructions to warn all the faithful Israelites against this detested innovation, and to counteract by every means in their power the progress of the new religion. No doubt the rapid growth of Christianity tended to strengthen the power of the synagogue, by constantly keeping alive the vigilance, and inflaming the zeal, of the more steadfast and ardent adherents to the Law. Indeed the point which mitigates^ more than any other, our compassion for the sufferings of the Jews, is the readiness with which they joined the heathen in the persecution of the Christians. Too often the Jews, though themselves eating the bitter bread of slavery, and instructed in the best school for the humaner feelings, adversity, were seen rejoicing by the stake of the expiring Christian. In the beautiful description of the death of Polycarp, there is a frightful incident of the Jews howling around the body of the holy martyr.

(Milman, History of the Jews, 1-vol. ed. p. 453, my bold)


“On the Priesthood of Jesus” aka “the Confession (or, Apology) of Theodosius”, is a 7th-8th CE story of Jesus being selected and registered as a priest following debate concerning Jesus’s paternity and genealogical qualifications, which, however, were satisfied. Nuvolone and Adler suppose there was a prior Jewish source of obscure origins underneath the story in its present form. In this story, Jesus being a priest is claimed to have been verified in the writings of Josephus. Again, it seems as if some ancient exegete has read a Revolt-era priest Jesus as Jesus Christ. Also, the character Theodosius in the story tells of his discovery that no other name appears after the name of Jesus in a written registry of priests kept by the Jews in the temple until it fell to the Romans. Theodosius concluded that Jesus was the final priest after which “kings and priests have ceased in Israel”.

(my bold)
https://vridar.org/2019/05/15/alan-kirk ... ment-93107
cora
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Re: 12 Jewish Apostles/Legates of the Patriarch of Tiberias: "the office probably existed before the fall of Jerusalem"

Post by cora »

Giuseppe,
Really? Apostle simply means messenger. The name Jesus Christ appears for the first time around 160. There were no "Christians" in Judea, they have one god. There was no rapid growth. Christians were not persecuted. The death of Polycarp is a story by Irenaeus and not true (there even is a miracle in it). Who is this Milman? A very devout catholic from the 50's?
Theodosius is a normal devout lier from the church, there are 100's if not 1000's of them. It must be true because it is from the 7th century?
What a nonsense all.
Secret Alias
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Re: 12 Jewish Apostles/Legates of the Patriarch of Tiberias: "the office probably existed before the fall of Jerusalem"

Post by Secret Alias »

Apostolos in the cultural context doesn't mean messenger. It means spokesman
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Giuseppe
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Re: 12 Jewish Apostles/Legates of the Patriarch of Tiberias: "the office probably existed before the fall of Jerusalem"

Post by Giuseppe »

Cora,
I share with your general view the idea that the Judaizers invented the criminal Bar-Abbas to defame the Jesus Son of Unknown Father adored by Marcion. "Bar-Abbas" means "Son of Father" and I challenge anyone to think that the Father was known: he wasn't.

I share the Klinghardt's idea that our Gospels are judaizing attempts against Mcn.

My differences with your view:

I think that Marcion hated YHWH as a beast deity. Hence the Jesus son of the demiurge was parodied as "Jesus son of the pan-therios" (all-beast"), i.e. the talmudic Jesus ben Panthera.

I think that Marcion inherited his gospel and didn't write it.

I think that Jesus existed and he was Jesus b. Sapphat.
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MrMacSon
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Re: 12 Jewish Apostles/Legates of the Patriarch of Tiberias: "the office probably existed before the fall of Jerusalem"

Post by MrMacSon »

Apostle apparently derives from the ship trade where it can mean 'ship, 'expedition', 'passport', and 'delivery note'. See Schmithals, Apostelamt (1961), p.85.
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