Is Paul Described as Having a 'Stopover' in Rome?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Secret Alias
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Re: Is Paul Described as Having a 'Stopover' in Rome?

Post by Secret Alias »

Terrible? Just whipped this off five minutes ago as my puppy took a nap.
Ostia: the Marcionite ‘Atlantis’
By Stephan Huller

The figure of Marcion has long cast a shadow over the study of the origins of Christianity. The reporting from early Patristic sources suggests that from the middle of the second century there were those “who allege that Paul alone knew the truth, and that to him the mystery was manifested by revelation.” Baur initiated the scholarly acknowledgement of an underlying tension between Pauline and Petrine Christian communities. The uncritical use of the canonical Acts of the Apostles as a ‘historical document’ is the chief obstacle to the acceptance of this point of view. Yet those described as ‘followers of Marcion’ rejected this text as spurious. The Marcionite objection has been ignored by centuries of Biblical commentors who quite literally take Acts at its words as it whitewashes the conflict at the heart of Galatians and 2 Corinthians. The Marcionites clearly understood Paul to have written the original gospel, to have established the ‘mystery’ at the heart of Christianity and to have founded the worldwide Church. No efforts up until now have been made to understand Marcionism as a living historical phenomenon because academia is comfortable taking the canonical Acts of the Apostles as something other than counterfeit. No one has been interested in short in finding the Marcionite Atlantis.

In this paper we will take tentative steps toward placing the headquarters of Marcionism in Ostia. For one, the consistent early mention of Marcion’s connection with the sea is quite suggestive in this regard. The only place Marcion is ever seen is Rome and even as he stands in the main square those apprehending him see activities that would associate him with Ostia. Secondly, the ‘whitewashing’ of conflict in the Acts of the Apostles covers up a clear association between Paul and Ostia. It is present in the only known Roman ‘counter-history’ to have survived – that is the Acts of Peter. Moreover, certain statements associated with the authoritative late second century figure Gaius of Rome reinforce this understanding no less than a critical examination of Hegesippus’s Roman succession list. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the existence of an unrecognized Marcionite community in Osroene which saw itself connected to a Roman church located by crashing waves of the sea and a ‘Marcion’ who was originally part of Paul’s conversion efforts in Ostia will confirm that Ostia was indeed the Marcionite Atlantis, the center of the Christian universe before the dawn of the third century.
Secret Alias
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Re: Is Paul Described as Having a 'Stopover' in Rome?

Post by Secret Alias »

Ok that was sufficiently awful. Let me try again:
Ostia: the Marcionite ‘Shechem’
By Stephan Huller

The figure of Marcion has long cast a shadow over the study of the origins of Christianity. Early Patristic sources suggest that from the middle of the second century there were those “who allege that Paul alone knew the truth, and that to him the mystery was manifested by revelation.” Baur initiated the scholarly acknowledgement of an underlying tension between Pauline and Petrine Christian communities. Yet the continued use of the canonical Acts of the Apostles as ‘history’ has hindered the historical understanding of ‘Paulism’ as a distinct historical tradition. From the beginning there were those who understood Paul to have been the only apostle, written the first gospel, to have established the ‘mystery’ at the heart of Christianity and thereby founding the worldwide Church. This understanding is clearly not the understanding of our canonical history book. As such little effort is made to flesh out a historical framework for this tradition which by its very existence questions our own inherited beliefs.

The situation is reminiscent of the fate of Samaritanism with a profound scholarly prejudice in favor of the Jewish historical model. The Samaritans like the Marcionites have only one apostle, one faith and one book. Yet owing to circumstances completely out of their control – that is, the European diaspora of Jewry and Judaism’s subsequent influence on the interpretation of the Bible in the West – one apostle and one prophet seems 'unusual' and of dubious historical value to our inherited sensibilities. Up until the now the Samaritans had at least one ‘advantage’ over the Marcionites insofar as they were physically associated with a religious center at the heart of their holy text. By contrast the reports associated with Marcion has him inevitably ‘popping up’ in Rome along with ships and nautical references with no attempt to connect this unusual tendency with an association with a Roman harbor. The lack of effort here would be akin to finding a representation of him standing in pirate regalia at the Forum and no one connecting him to Ostia.

In this paper we will remedy the situation by taking tentative steps toward placing the headquarters of Marcionism in Ostia. For one, the consistent early mention of Marcion’s connection with the sea is quite suggestive in this regard. The only place Marcion is ever seen is Rome and even as he stands in the main square those apprehending him see activities that would associate him with Ostia. Secondly, the ‘whitewashing’ of conflict in the Acts of the Apostles covers up a clear association between Paul and Ostia. It is present in the only known Roman ‘counter-history’ to have survived – that is the Acts of Peter. Moreover, certain statements associated with the authoritative late second century figure Gaius of Rome reinforce this understanding no less than a critical examination of Hegesippus’s Roman succession list. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the existence of an unrecognized Marcionite community in Osroene which saw itself connected to a Roman church located by crashing waves of the sea and a ‘Marcion’ who was originally part of Paul’s conversion efforts in Ostia will confirm that Ostia was indeed the Marcionite Shechem, the center of the Christian universe before the dawn of the third century.
Never a good idea to call out Jewish prejudice in Christian scholarship but it is one of the privileges I have being Jewish.
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Jax
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Re: Is Paul Described as Having a 'Stopover' in Rome?

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Hey Esse, just got back from a drive where I have been mulling over your posts on Marcion. Some questions if I may.

1: If Marcus Granius Marcellus was the proconsul of Bithynia and Pontus before Pliny and a son was born to him there, say in Sinope, and the son was named Marcus like his father but was called Marcion by family and friends, either because he was small in stature or just because he was the younger Marcus, could he be referred to as a Marcion of Sinope?

2: Would Marcellina be a proper name for a daughter of Marcus Granius Marcellus.

3: What I wonder ever happened to the Christian citizens of Rome that Pliny sent to Rome for further questioning? Is it reasonable that they would first be interviewed by Marcus Granius Marcellus, being the former proconsul of their province, before being sent on to the court in Rome? Could that possibly be an 'infection' point for the family of Marcus Granius Marcellus becoming part of the Christ cult?

Just some thoughts.

Lane
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Re: Is Paul Described as Having a 'Stopover' in Rome?

Post by Secret Alias »

If Marcus Granius Marcellus was the proconsul of Bithynia and Pontus before Pliny and a son was born to him there, say in Sinope, and the son was named Marcus like his father but was called Marcion by family and friends, either because he was small in stature or just because he was the younger Marcus, could he be referred to as a Marcion of Sinope?
I think Marcion is the Greek equivalent of Marcellus.
Would Marcellina be a proper name for a daughter of Marcus Granius Marcellus.
I think there was great freedom with respect to the naming conventions of children.
What I wonder ever happened to the Christian citizens of Rome that Pliny sent to Rome for further questioning? Is it reasonable that they would first be interviewed by Marcus Granius Marcellus, being the former proconsul of their province, before being sent on to the court in Rome? Could that possibly be an 'infection' point for the family of Marcus Granius Marcellus becoming part of the Christ cult?
Marcellus was long dead. I think it is unusual that this family is connected with Christianity consistently.
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Jax
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Re: Is Paul Described as Having a 'Stopover' in Rome?

Post by Jax »

Secret Alias wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:39 pm
If Marcus Granius Marcellus was the proconsul of Bithynia and Pontus before Pliny and a son was born to him there, say in Sinope, and the son was named Marcus like his father but was called Marcion by family and friends, either because he was small in stature or just because he was the younger Marcus, could he be referred to as a Marcion of Sinope?
I think Marcion is the Greek equivalent of Marcellus.
Would Marcellina be a proper name for a daughter of Marcus Granius Marcellus.
I think there was great freedom with respect to the naming conventions of children.
What I wonder ever happened to the Christian citizens of Rome that Pliny sent to Rome for further questioning? Is it reasonable that they would first be interviewed by Marcus Granius Marcellus, being the former proconsul of their province, before being sent on to the court in Rome? Could that possibly be an 'infection' point for the family of Marcus Granius Marcellus becoming part of the Christ cult?
Marcellus was long dead. I think it is unusual that this family is connected with Christianity consistently.
This is the same Marcus Granius Marcellus that was acquitted by Tiberius?
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Jax
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Re: Is Paul Described as Having a 'Stopover' in Rome?

Post by Jax »

Most interesting. Thanks! :cheers:
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Jax
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Re: Is Paul Described as Having a 'Stopover' in Rome?

Post by Jax »

Sinope in Pontus was established as a Roman military colony, Colonia Julia Felix, in 47 BCE.

If Paul were indeed writing to Roman veteran colonies of the 1st century BCE, Corinth, Philippi, Troas, from the mid to early 1st century BCE then it would be possible for Marcus Granius Marcellus to become exposed to a Christ cult in Pontus during his proconsulship of 14-15 CE. This seems less likely during the early rein of Tiberius IMO.

Food for thought.
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Re: Is Paul Described as Having a 'Stopover' in Rome?

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Or are the Acts of the Apostles and Paul invented to cover up a Christian origins story that is ACTUALLY HISTORICAL. The Acts of Hegemonius draws a thin line between Paul and Marcellus. Very similar to what we might imagine happened in proto-Acts of Peter i.e. Mani comes to gain Marcellus's acknowledgement that he (Mani) is the Paraclete. Why not Paul? The visit is likened to Simon Magus coming to Marcellus the senator.
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Jax
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Re: Is Paul Described as Having a 'Stopover' in Rome?

Post by Jax »

And we do have Matthew placing the birth of Jesus in the rein of Herod with Magi from the east.
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