Papyrus Fragment Bears Early Christian Prayers

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
The Crow
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Papyrus Fragment Bears Early Christian Prayers

Post by The Crow »

MANCHESTER, ENGLAND—A fragment of a 1,500-year-old papyrus charm from Egypt in the John Rylands Library at Manchester University is “the first ever found to refer to the Last Supper and use magic in the Christian context,” according to Roberta Mazza of the new John Rylands Research Institute.
http://www.archaeology.org/news/2489-14 ... ity-amulet

Just wondering what the experts here think of this? And if that is not enough:

Egyptian Text Describes Jesus Changing His Shape

http://www.archaeology.org/news/660-130 ... apeshifter

more on this here:
http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/0 ... ting-jesus

I see this throwing a monkey wrench into the entire Pontius Pilate debate some how.
Stephan Huller
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Re: Papyrus Fragment Bears Early Christian Prayers

Post by Stephan Huller »

I've been corresponding with her on Facebook. Her overarching point was that the media is exaggerating the significance of the discovery
The Crow
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Re: Papyrus Fragment Bears Early Christian Prayers

Post by The Crow »

Stephan Huller wrote:I've been corresponding with her on Facebook. Her overarching point was that the media is exaggerating the significance of the discovery
OK, I did not know if anyone here knew of it so I posted it.... Thing I am interested in is the Coptic Text.....what exactly is that? Did the Egyptians use Coptic?
Clive
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Re: Papyrus Fragment Bears Early Christian Prayers

Post by Clive »

Among other apochrypal claims, the text says that Jesus had dinner with Pontius Pilate before the crucifixation, and that Judas used a kiss to identify Jesus for those who came to arrest him because he was constantly changing his shape.
Archaeology link above

What other stories are there? What criteria is used to state some are authorised some apocryphal?
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
Clive
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Re: Papyrus Fragment Bears Early Christian Prayers

Post by Clive »

"Then the Jews said to Judas: How shall we arrest him (Jesus), for he does not have a single shape but his appearance changes. Sometimes he is ruddy, sometimes he is white, sometimes he is red, sometimes he is wheat coloured, sometimes he is pallid like ascetics, sometimes he is a youth, sometimes an old man ..."
Science link above.
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: Papyrus Fragment Bears Early Christian Prayers

Post by Leucius Charinus »

The "Shape-Shifting Jesus" appears in other heretical books .....

Photius' BIBLIOTHECA OR MYRIOBIBLON
  • He asserts that He never was really made man,
    but only in appearance; that He appeared at different times in different form
    to His disciples, now as a young, now as an old man, and then again as a boy,
    now taller, now shorter, now very tall, so that His head reached nearly to heaven.
A "cobbler of fables" [Augustine]; "Leucius is the disciple of the devil" [Decretum Gelasianum]; and his books "should be utterly swept away and burned" [Pope Leo I]; they are the "source and mother of all heresy" [Photius]
The Crow
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Re: Papyrus Fragment Bears Early Christian Prayers

Post by The Crow »

Mark 16:12 speaks of him appearing in another form:

12 After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country.
ficino
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Re: Papyrus Fragment Bears Early Christian Prayers

Post by ficino »

The link says that the Rylands papyrus fragment is 1500 years old. That's not so early, comparatively.
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MrMacSon
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Re: Papyrus Fragment Bears Early Christian Prayers

Post by MrMacSon »

ficino wrote:The link says that the Rylands papyrus fragment is 1500 years old. That's not so early, comparatively.
Sure, but it shows diverse theologies in the 5th C, at least, which in turn suggests "gospel truth" is a nebulous notion.
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: Papyrus Fragment Bears Early Christian Prayers

Post by Leucius Charinus »

The Crow wrote:Mark 16:12 speaks of him appearing in another form:

12 After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country.

I think you will find that it is mainstream opinion that the heretical authors mimicked the canonical texts.

IMO it was canonical verses just like this that the heretical authors played upon.

NOTE ALSO: the presence of the resurrected Jesus is generally the trade mark of the heretical books.
A "cobbler of fables" [Augustine]; "Leucius is the disciple of the devil" [Decretum Gelasianum]; and his books "should be utterly swept away and burned" [Pope Leo I]; they are the "source and mother of all heresy" [Photius]
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