Witnessing the Divine

[The Crow]

The Magi in Art and Literature

Nevertheless, or perhaps because of this, the legend of the magi has fired the imagination of Christians since the earliest times. In art, the adoration of the magi appeared earlier and far more frequently than any other scene of Jesus’ birth and infancy, including images of the babe in a manger. The artistic evidence suggests that the early church attributed great theological importance to the story of Jesus’ first visitors—an importance not overtly stated in this enigmatic gospel account of omens and dreams, astrological signs and precious gifts, fear and flight. To understand how the earliest Christians interpreted the message of the magi, we must look to early Christian literature (theological treatises, sermons and poetry)—and art.

Above from the second paragraph of the article. Not exactly a biased site but I found the article interesting and thought of a question. Is there any other story in another religion that this could have been drawn from or is it a complete Christian invention ?

[Thor]

Why not start with the obvious. Who and what are the Magi? If the Magi have knowledge not found among the wise men in Judea, who then does the prophecy belong to?

I can mention the story of king Astyages. This king had a dream that his magi interpreted as a sign that his grandson would eventually overthrow him. Astyages orders the death of the infant, this new king to be as claimed by the magi. The ones ordered to kill the infant can not execute their orders, and the child is abandoned with some simple herding people. This child later became the king known as Cyrus the great. Or as the bible describes him, the Christ who fulfills prophecy.

[DCHindley]

Why not start with the obvious. Who and what are the Magi? If the Magi have knowledge not found among the wise men in Judea, who then does the prophecy belong to?

I can mention the story of king Astyages. This king had a dream that his magi interpreted as a sign that his grandson would eventually overthrow him. Astyages orders the death of the infant, this new king to be as claimed by the magi. The ones ordered to kill the infant can not execute their orders, and the child is abandoned with some simple herding people. This child later became the king known as Cyrus the great. Or as the bible describes him, the Christ who fulfills prophecy.

Median king Astyages and his struggle with the Persian noble Cyrus seems to be on the minds of the earliest Christians. The historically verifiable king Cyrus is the gentile of whom the author of Isaiah 44:28 sez:

44:28 Who bids Cyrus be wise, and he shall perform all my will: who says to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built, and I will lay the foundation of my holy house. 45:1 Thus saith the Lord God to my anointed Cyrus, whose right hand I have held, that nations might be obedient before him; and I will break through the strength of kings; I will open doors before him, and cities shall not be closed.

44:28 who says of Cyrus, 'He is my shepherd, and he shall fulfil all my purpose'; saying of Jerusalem, 'She shall be built,' and of the temple, 'Your foundation shall be laid.'" 45:1 Thus says the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have grasped, to subdue nations before him and ungird the loins of kings, to open doors before him that gates may not be closed

The gospel story of Jesus telling the story of the Piper alludes to this "prophesy" about Cyrus:

7:32 They are like children sitting in the market place and calling to one another, 'We piped to you, and you did not dance; we wailed, and you did not weep.'

11:17 'We piped to you, and you did not dance; we wailed, and you did not mourn.'

The middle term that connects these two passages is found in two sources:

Immediately after the conquest of Lydia by the Persians, the Ionian and Aeolian Greeks sent ambassadors to Cyrus at Sardis, and prayed to become his lieges on the footing which they had occupied under Croesus. Cyrus listened attentively to their proposals, and answered them by a fable. "There was a certain piper," he said, "who was walking one day by the seaside, when he espied some fish; so he began to pipe to them, imagining they would come out to him upon the land. But as he found at last that his hope was vain, he took a net, and enclosing a great draught of fishes, drew them ashore. The fish then began to leap and dance; but the piper said, 'Cease your dancing now, as you did not choose to come and dance when I piped to you.'" Cyrus gave this answer to the Ionians and Aeolians, because, when he urged them by his messengers to revolt from Croesus, they refused; but now, when his work was done, they came to offer their allegiance. It was in anger, therefore, that he made them this reply.

In the NT setting, it is treated by critics as just an ironic rebuke drawn from some vague "well-know folk aphorism", and the political setting is completely ignored. That brings us to the form found in the Fables of Aesop. Here there is no firm text, only the texts preserved by medieval editors like Babrius (#9).

THE FISHERMAN PIPING.

A FISHERMAN skilled in music took his flute and his acts to the sea-shore. Standing on a projecting rock he played several tunes, in the hope that the fish, attracted by his melody, would of their own accord dance into his net, which he had placed below. At last, having long waited in vain, he laid aside his flute, and casting his net into the sea, made an excellent haul of fish. When he saw them leaping about in the net upon the rock he said :
"O you most perverse creatures, when I piped you would not dance, but now that I have ceased you do so errily."

If you prefer a version with a moral:

The Fisher

A Fisher once took his bagpipes to the bank of a river, and played upon them with the hope of making the fish rise; but never a one put his nose out of the water. So he cast his net into the river and soon drew it forth filled with fish. Then he took his bagpipes again, and, as he played, the fish leapt up in the net. "Ah, you dance now when I play," said he.

"Yes," said an old Fish: "When you are in a man's power you must do as he bids you."

Ἁλιεύς τις αὐλοὺς εἶχε καὶ σοφῶς ηὔλει·
καὶ δή ποτ' ὄψον ἐλπισας ἀμοχθήτως
πολὺ πρὸς αὐλῶν ἡδυφωνίην ἥξειν,
τὸ δίκτυον θεὶς ἐτερέτιζεν εὐμούσως.
ἐπεὶ δὲ φυσῶν ἔκαμε καὶ μάτην ηὔλει,
βαλὼν σαγήνην εἷλκεν ἰχθύων πλήρη.
ἐπὶ γῆς δ' ἰδων σπαίροντας ἄλλον ἀλλοίως,
τοιαῦτ' ἐκερτόμησε τὸν βόλον πλύνων·
"ἄναυλα νῦν ὀρχεῖσθε. κρεῖσσον ἦν ὕμας
πάλαι χορεύειν, ἡνίκ' εἰς χοροὺς ηὔλουν."
[Οὐκ ἔστιν ἀπόνως οὐδ' ἀλύοντα κερδαίνειν.
ὅταν καμὼν δὲ τοῦθ' ἕλῃς ὅπερ βούλει,
τὸ κερτομεῖν σοι καιρός ἐστι καὶ παίζειν.]
http://mythfolklore.net/aesopica/babrius/9.htm

It suggests to me that Jesus is alluding to Cyrus' barb directed against the "day late and a dollar short" Lydian peace delegation, a distinctly political setting for a tragically misunderstood peace-nik sophist Jesus. Right away we can wave this unpleasant factoid away as irrelevant to "serious" Jesus study.

DCH

[The Crow]

Thanks guys. But I see what I believe is a major problem with the story. Firstly it is claimed that the Magi came from Persia. The trip from Persia to Jerusalem according to the Catholic Encyclopedia would have taken 3 to 12 months by camel. Also, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia it would have been a year or more before they reached Jerusalem! So how did they offer gifts to a child that by the time they got there would have been long gone! Astronomically the story is a fluke.

APA citation. Drum, W. (1910). Magi. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Retrieved September 14, 2014 from New Advent: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09527a.htm

[Thor]

Firstly it is claimed that the Magi came from Persia. The trip from Persia to Jerusalem according to the Catholic Encyclopedia would have taken 3 to 12 months by camel. Also, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia it would have been a year or more before they reached Jerusalem!

Well..Does it not say they came from the east, or actually from where the sun rises to be more specific. The distance and origin of travel is merely imagined assumptions.

So how did they offer gifts to a child that by the time they got there would have been long gone! Astronomically the story is a fluke.

The story of omens in the sky predicting the birth or rise of a new king is a common theme to prove legitimacy of the king. The omens related to Alexander, Constantin or other kings, past or present, have no need to be accurate historical astronomical observations.

If you first accept that God have impregnated a woman in order to give birth to himself. Why then question historical accuracy regarding later events? Everything after Genisis is more or less simple tricks and novelties in the magic department, as the creation of the universe is like opening with the grand finale.

[The Crow]

Firstly it is claimed that the Magi came from Persia. The trip from Persia to Jerusalem according to the Catholic Encyclopedia would have taken 3 to 12 months by camel. Also, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia it would have been a year or more before they reached Jerusalem!

Well..Does it not say they came from the east, or actually from where the sun rises to be more specific. The distance and origin of travel is merely imagined assumptions.

So how did they offer gifts to a child that by the time they got there would have been long gone! Astronomically the story is a fluke.

The story of omens in the sky predicting the birth or rise of a new king is a common theme to prove legitimacy of the king. The omens related to Alexander, Constantin or other kings, past or present, have no need to be accurate historical astronomical observations.

If you first accept that God have impregnated a woman in order to give birth to himself. Why then question historical accuracy regarding later events? Everything after Genisis is more or less simple tricks and novelties in the magic department, as the creation of the universe is like opening with the grand finale.

Why then question historical accuracy regarding later events?

Then why question everything that happened after the Holocaust? Or why Washington crossed the Delaware? Or why the South lost the Civil War?

[GakuseiDon]

Is there any other story in another religion that this could have been drawn from or is it a complete Christian invention ?

There are lots of stories about astrologers and prophets predicting the advent of great leaders around their birth or when they are young. There was also the Delphi oracles and the Sibylline Books, which were consulted by the rulers of Rome. (I suspect that Paul's statement about "the wisdom of the rulers of this age" is a reference to things like that.) I think wise men decyphering meaningful astrological signs would have been a common trope of the times.

But I see what I believe is a major problem with the story. Firstly it is claimed that the Magi came from Persia. The trip from Persia to Jerusalem according to the Catholic Encyclopedia would have taken 3 to 12 months by camel. Also, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia it would have been a year or more before they reached Jerusalem! So how did they offer gifts to a child that by the time they got there would have been long gone! Astronomically the story is a fluke.

From Matthew 2:

• [7] Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
  ...
  [16] Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

Wow, it looks like you are correct. The above implies that Joseph, Mary and Jesus were in Bethlehem for up to two years! The inn-keeper must have been peeved. "Get out of my stables already!"

[ficino]

Matthew 2:11 says "And when they had come into the house..." It's usually held by believers in the historicity of the infancy narratives that Joseph took his family elsewhere in Bethlehem to live after Jesus' birth in the stable.

[GakuseiDon]

Fair point, though I'm joking of course. There are no inn or stables in the birth narrative in Matthew. Interestingly, Matthew has Joseph and Mary giving birth to Jesus in Bethlehem, without saying where they came from. No mention of Nazareth until later on, when they move there after a detour to Egypt.

[Thor]

I meant why question the obvious metaphor of omens predicting the birth of a savior king.

Here is something from the records of Ardashir

One day Artabanus invited to his presence the sages and astrologers, who belonged to his court, and put them the following question: "What do you observe regarding the seven planets and the twelve signs of the zodiac, the position and the motion of the stars, the condition of the contemporary sovereigns of different kingdoms, the condition of the peoples of the world, and regarding myself, children, and our family?"

The chief of the astrologers said in reply as follows: "The Nahazig [Capricorn] is sunk below; the star Jupiter has returned to its culminating point and stands away from Mars and Venus, while Haptoirang [Ursa Major]and the constellation of Leo descend to the verge and give help to Jupiter; whereupon it seems clear that a new lord or king will appear, who will kill many potentates, and bring the world again under the sway of one sovereign." A second leader of the astrologers, too, came in the presence of the King and spoke to the following effect: "It is so manifest that any one of the male servants who flies away from his king within three days from to-day, will attain to greatness and kingship, obtain his wish, and be victorious, over his king."

It continues the ancient tradition of metaphorical King of kings/Lord of lords, savior king as aspect of the sun. Marduk, Shamash, Utu, you name them. The king`s star being the sun. The historical accuracy of astrological prophecies is difficult to examine, as .. well.. you know, it is astrology. Yes there could be astronomical implications in the story, but I struggle to perceive them as more than just metaphorical concepts. Just like I would not believe this is depiction of some historical account.



I am not arguing some astronomical interpretation being hidden in the text or not. I can only share what I have knowledge of, and what I make out of this fragmented mess. You asked for other stories this specific story could have been drawn from. I tried to answer. A discussion about one of them being historical accurate is not something I wish to waste my time on.