Is 'Karinus' a Greek Name or Latin Name?

[Stephan Huller]

Strabo demonstrating that at one time both Levkas, Cephalonia and parts of the mainland were all under the authority of Odysseus and often confused with one another:

Now the Aetolians and the Acarnanians border on one another, having between them the Acheloüs River, which flows from the north and from Pindus on the south through the country of the Agraeans, an Aetolian tribe, 450 and through that of the Amphilochians, the Acarnanians holding the western side of the river p25as far as that part of the Ambracian Gulf which is near Amphilochi and the temple of the Actian Apollo, but the Aetolians the eastern side as far as the Ozalian Locrians and Parnassus and the Oetaeans. Above the Acarnanians, in the interior and the parts towards the north, are situated the Amphilochians, and above these the Dolopians and Pindus, and above the Aetolians are the Perrhaebians and Athamanians and a part of the Aenianians who hold Oeta. The southern side, of Acarnania and Aetolia alike, is washed by the sea which forms the Corinthian Gulf, into which empties the Acheloüs River, which forms the boundary between the coast of the Aetolians and that of Acarnania. In earlier times the Acheloüs was called Thoas. The river which flows past Dymê bears the same name as this, as I have already said,1 and also the river near Lamia.2 I have already stated, also, that the Corinthian Gulf is said to begin at the mouth of this river.3

2 As for cities, those of the Acarnanians are Anactorium, which is situated on a peninsula near Actium and is a trading-centre of the Nicopolis of to‑day, which was founded in our times;4 Stratus, where one may sail up the Acheloüs River more than two hundred stadia; and Oeneiadae, which is also on the river — the old city, which is equidistant from the sea and from Stratus, being uninhabited, whereas that of to‑day lies at a distance of about seventy stadia above the outlet of the river. There are also other cities, Palaerus, Alyzia, Leucas,5 Argos p27Amphilochicum, and Ambracia, most of which, or rather all, have become dependencies of Nicopolis. Stratus is situated about midway of the road between Alyzia and Anactorium.6

3 The cities of the Aetolians are Calydon and Pleuron, which are now indeed reduced, though in early times these settlements were an ornament to Greece. Further, Aetolia has come to be divided into two parts, one part being called Old Aetolia and the other Aetolia Epictetus.7 The Old Aetolia was the seacoast extending from the Acheloüs to Calydon, reaching for a considerable distance into the interior, which is fertile and level; here in the interior lie Stratus and Trichonium, the latter having excellent soil. Aetolia Epictetus is the part which borders on the country of the Locrians in the direction of Naupactus and Eupalium, being a rather rugged and sterile country, and extends to the Oetaean country and to that of the Athamanians and to the mountains and tribes which are situated next beyond these towards the north.

4 Aetolia also has a very large mountain, Corax, which borders on Oeta; and it has among the rest of its mountains, and more in the middle of the country than Corax, Aracynthus, 451 near which New Pleuron was founded by the inhabitants of the Old, who abandoned their city, which had been situated near Calydon in a district both fertile and level, at the time when Demetrius, surnamed Aetolicus,8 laid waste the country; above Molycreia are Taphiassus p29and Chalcis, rather high mountains, on which were situated the small cities Macynia and Chalcis, the latter bearing the same name as the mountain, though it is also called Hypochalcis. Near Old Pleuron is the mountain Curium, after which, as some have supposed, the Pleuronian Curetes were named.

5 The Evenus River begins in the territory of those Bomians who live in the country of the Ophians, the Ophians being an Aetolian tribe (like the Eurytanians and Agraeans and Curetes and others), and flows at first, not through the Curetan country, which is the same as the Pleuronian, but through the more easterly country, past Chalcis and Calydon; and then, bending back towards the plains of Old Pleuron and changing its course to the west, it turns towards its outlets and the south. In earlier times it was called Lycornas. And there Nessus, it is said, who had been appointed ferryman, was killed by Heracles because he tried to violate Deïaneira when he was ferrying her across the river.

6 The poet also names Olenus and Pylenê as Aetolian cities.9 Of these, the former, which bears the same name as the Achaean city, was rased to the ground by the Aeolians; it was near New Pleuron, but the Acarnanians claimed possession of the territory. The other, Pylenê, the Aeolians moved to higher ground, and also changed its name, calling it Proschium. Hellanicus does not know the p31history of these cities either, but mentions them as though they too were still in their early status; and seeming the early cities he names Macynia and Molycreia, which were founded even later than the return of the Heracleidae, almost everywhere in his writings displaying a most convenient carelessness.

7 Upon the whole, then, this is what I have to say concerning the country of the Acarnanians and the Aetolians, but the following is also to be added concerning the seacoast and the islands which lie off it: Beginning at the mouth of the Ambracian Gulf, the first place which belongs to the Acarnanians is Actium. The temple of the Actian Apollo bears the same name, as also the cape which forms the mouth of the Gulf and has a harbour on the outer side. Anactorium, which is situated on the gulf, is forty stadia distant from the temple, whereas Leucas is two hundred and forty.

8 In early times Leucas was a peninsula of Acarnania, but the poet calls it "shore of the mainland,"10 using the term "mainland" for the country which is situated across from Ithaca and Cephallenia; 452 and this country is Acarnania. And therefore, when he says, "shore of the mainland," one should take it to mean "shore of Acarnania." And to Leucas also belonged, not only Nericus, which Laertes says he took ("verily I took Nericus, well-built citadel, shore of the mainland, when I was lord over the p33Cephallenians"),11 but also the cities which Homer names in the Catalogue ("and dwelt in Crocyleia and rugged Aegilips").12 But Corinthians sent by Cypselus13 and Gorgus took possession of this shore and also advanced as far as the Ambracian Gulf; and both Ambracia and Anactorium were colonised at this time; and the Corinthians dug a canal through the isthmus of the peninsula and made Leucas an island; and they transferred Nericus to the place which, though once an isthmus, is now a strait spanned by a bridge, and they changed its name to Leucas, which was named, as I think, after Leucatas; for Leucatas is a rock of white14 colour jutting out from Leucas into the sea and towards Cephallenia, and therefore it took its name from its colour.

9 It contains the temple of Apollo Leucatas, and also the "Leap," which was believed to put an end to the longings of love. "Where Sappho is said to have been the first," as Menander says, "when through frantic longing she was chasing the haughty Phaon, to fling herself with a leap from the far‑seen rock, calling upon thee in prayer, O lord and master." Now although Menander says that Sappho was the first to take the leap, yet those who are better versed than he in antiquities say that it was Cephalus, who was in love with Pterelas the son of p35Deïoneus. It was an ancestral custom among the Leucadians, every year at the sacrifice performed in honour of Apollo, for some criminal to be flung from this rocky look‑out for the sake of averting evil, wings and birds of all kinds being fastened to him, since by their fluttering they could lighten the leap, and also for a number of men, stationed all round below the rock in small fishing-boats, to take the victim in, and, when he had been taken on board,15 to do all in their power to get him safely outside their borders. The author of the Alcmaeonis16 says that Icarius, the father of Penelope, had two sons, Alyzeus and Leucadius, and that these two reigned over Acarnania with their father; accordingly, Ephorus thinks that the cities were named after these.

10 But though at the present time only the people of the island Cephallenia are called Cephallenians, Homer so calls all who were subject to Odysseus, among whom are also the Acarnanians. For after saying, "but Odysseus led the Cephallenians, who held Ithaca and Neritum with quivering foliage"17 (Neritum being the famous mountain on the island, as always when he says, "and those from Dulichium and the sacred Echinades,"18 Dulichium itself being one of the Echinades; 453 and "those who dwelt in Buprasium and Elis,"19 Buprasium being in Elis; and "those who held Euboea and Chalcis and Eiretria,"20 meaning that these cities p37were in Euboea; and "Trojans and Lycians and Dardanians,"21 meaning that the Lycians and Dardanians were Trojans) — however, after mentioning "Neritum,"22 he says, "and dwelt in Crocyleia and rugged Aegilips, and those who held Zacynthos and those who dwelt about Samos, and those who held the mainland and dwelt in the parts over against the islands." By "mainland,"23 therefore, he means the parts over against the islands, wishing to include, along with Leucas, the rest of Acarnania as well,24 concerning which he also speaks in this way, "twelve herd on the mainland, and as many flocks of sheep,"25 perhaps because Epeirotis extended thus far in early times and was called by the general name "mainland." But by "Samos" he means the Cephallenia of to‑day, as, when he says, "in the strait between Ithaca and rugged Samos";26 for by the epithet he differentiates between the objects bearing the same name, thus making the name apply, not to the city, but to the island. For the island was a Tetrapolis,27 and one of its four cities was the city called indifferently either Samos or Samê, bearing the same name as the island. And when the poet says, "for all the nobles who hold sway over the islands, Dulichium and Samê and woody Zacynthos,"28 he is evidently making an enumeration of the islands and calling "Samê" that island which he had formerly29 called Samos. But p39Apollodorus,30 when he says in one passage that ambiguity is removed by the epithet when the poet says "and rugged Samos,"31 showing that he meant the island, and then, in another passage, says that one should copy the reading, "Dulichium and Samos,"32 instead of "Samê," plainly takes the position that the city was called "Samê" or "Samos" indiscriminately, but the island "Samos" only; for that the city was called Samê is clear, according to Apollodorus, from the fact that, in enumerating the wooers from the several cities, the poet33 said, "from Samê came four and twenty men,"34 and also from the statement concerning Ktimenê, "they then sent her to Samê to wed."35 454 But this is open to argument, for the poet does not express himself distinctly concerning either Cephallenia or Ithaca and the other places near by; and consequently both the commentators and the historians are at variance with one another.

11 For instance, when Homer says in regard to Ithaca, "those who held Ithaca and Neritum with quivering foliage,"36 he clearly indicates by the epithet that he means the mountain Neritum; and in other passages he expressly calls it a mountain; "but I dwell in sunny Ithaca, wherein is a mountain, Neritum, with quivering leaves and conspicuous from afar."37 But whether by Ithaca he means the p41city or the island, is not clear, at least in the following verse, "those who held Ithaca and Neritum";38 for if one takes the word in its proper sense, one would interpret it as meaning the city, just as though one should say "Athens and Lycabettus," or "Rhodes and Atabyris," or "Lacedaemon and Taÿgetus"; but if he takes it in a poetical sense the opposite is true. However, in the word, "but I dwelt in sunny Ithaca, wherein is a mountain Neritum,"39 his meaning is clear, for the mountain is in the island, not in the city. But when he says as follows, "we have come from Ithaca below Neïum,"40 it is not clear whether he means that Neïum is the same as Neritum or different, or whether it is a mountain or place. However, the critic who writes Nericum41 instead of Neritum, or the reverse, is utterly mistaken; for the poet refers to the latter as "quivering with foliage,"42 but to the former as "well-built citadel,"43 and to the latter as "in Ithaca,"44 but to the former as "shore of the mainland."45

12 The following verse also is thought to disclose a sort of contradiction: "Now Ithaca itself lies chthamalê, panypertatê on the sea";46 for chthamalê means "low," or "on the ground," whereas panypertatê means "high up," as Homer indicates in several places when he calls Ithaca "rugged."47 And so when he refers to the road that leads from p43the harbour as "rugged path up through the wooded place,"48 and when he says "for not one of the islands which lean upon the sea is eudeielos49 or rich in meadows, and Ithaca surpasses them all."50 Now although Homer's phraseology presents incongruities of this kind, yet they are not poorly explained; for, in the first place, writers do not interpret chthamalê as meaning "low‑lying" here, but "lying near the mainland," since it is very close to it, and, secondly, they do not interpret panypertatê as meaning "highest," but "highest towards the darkness," that, farthest removed towards the north beyond all the others; for this is what he means by "towards the darkness," but the opposite by "towards the south," as in 455 "but the other islands lie aneuthe towards the dawn and the sun,"51 for the word aneuthe is "at a distance," or "apart," implying that the other islands lie towards the south and farther away from the mainland, whereas Ithaca lies near the mainland and towards the north. That Homer refers in this way to the southerly region is clear also from these words, "whether they go to the right, towards the dawn and the sun, or yet to the left towards the misty darkness,"52 and still more clear from these words, "my friends, lo, now we know not where is the place of darkness, nor of dawn, nor where the sun, that gives light to men, goes beneath the earth, nor where he rises."53 For p45it is indeed possible to interpret this as meaning the four "climata,"54 if we interpret "the dawn" as meaning the southerly region (and this has some plausibility), but it is better to conceive of the region which is along the path of the sun as set opposite to the northerly region, for the poetic words are intended to signify a considerable change in the celestial phenomena,55 not merely a temporary concealment of the "climata," for necessarily concealment ensues every time the sky is clouded, whether by day or by night; but the celestial phenomena change to a greater extent as we travel farther and farther towards the south or in the opposite direction. Yet this travel causes a hiding, not of the western or eastern sky, but only of the southern or northern, and in fact this hiding takes place when the sky is clear; for the pole is the most northerly point of the sky, but since the pole moves and is sometimes at our zenith and sometimes below the earth, the arctic circles also change with it and in the course of such travels sometimes vanish with it,56 so that you cannot know where the northern "clima" is, or even where it begins.57 And if this is true, p47neither can you know the opposite "clima." The circuit of Ithaca is about eighty stadia.58 So much for Ithaca.

13 As for Cephallenia, which is a Tetrapolis, the poet mentions by its present name neither it nor any of its cities except one, Samê or Samos, which now no longer exists, though traces of it are to be seen midway of the passage to Ithaca; and its people are called Samaeans. The other three, however, survive even to this day in the little cities Paleis, Pronesus, and Cranii. And in our time Gaius Antonius, the uncle of Marcus Antonius, founded still another city, when, after his consulship, which he held with Cicero the orator, he went into exile,59 sojourned in Cephallenia, and held the whole island in subjection as though it were his private estate. However, before he could complete the settlement he obtained permission to return home,60 and ended his days amid other affairs of greater importance.

14 Some, however, have not hesitated to identify Cephallenia with Dulichium, 456 and others with Taphos, calling the Cephallenians Taphians, and likewise Teleboans, and to say that Amphitryon made an expedition thither with Cephalus, the son of Deïoneus, whom, an exile from Athens, he had taken along with him, and that when Amphitryon seized the island he gave it over to Cephalus, and that the island was named after Cephalus and the cities after his children. But this is not in accordance with Homer; for the Cephallenians were subject to Odysseus and Laertes, whereas Taphos was subject p49to Mentes: "I declare that I am Mentes the son of wise Anchialus, and I am lord over the oar‑loving Taphians."61 Taphos is now called Taphius. Neither is Hellanicus62 in accordance with Homer when he identifies Cephallenia with Dulichium, for him63 makes Dulichium and the remainder of the Echinades subject to Meges; and their inhabitants were Epeians, who had come there from Elis; and it is on this account that he calls Otus the Cyllenian "comrade of Phyleides64 and ruler of the high-hearted Epeians";65 "but Odysseus led the high-hearted Cephallenians."66 According to Homer, therefore, neither is Cephallenia Dulichium nor is Dulichium a part of Cephallenia, as Andron67 says; for the Epeians held possession of Dulichium, whereas the Cephallenians held possession of the whole of Cephallenia and were subject to Odysseus, whereas the Epeians were subject to Meges. Neither is Paleis called Dulichium by the poet, as Pherecydes writes. But that writer is most in opposition to Homer who identifies Cephallenia with Dulichium, if it be true that "fifty‑two" of the suitors were "from Dulichium" and "twenty-four from Samê";68 for in that case would not Homer say that fifty‑two came from the island as a whole and a half of that number less two from a single one of its four cities? However, if one grants this, I shall ask what Homer can mean by "Samê" in the passage, "Dulichium and Samê and woody Zacynthos."69

p51 15 Cephallenia lies opposite Acarnania, at a distance of about fifty stadia from Leucatas (some say forty), and about one hundred and eighty from Chelonatas. It has a perimeter of about three hundred70 stadia, is long, extending towards Eurus,71 and is mountainous. The largest mountain upon it is Aenus, whereon is the temple of Zeus Aenesius; and where the island is narrowest it forms an isthmus so low‑lying that it is often submerged from sea to sea. Both Paleis and Cranii are on the gulf near the narrows.

16 Between Ithaca and Cephallenia is the small island Asteria (the poet calls it Asteris), which the Scepsian72 says no longer remains such as the poet describes it, "but in it are harbours safe for anchorage with entrances on either side";73 457 Apollodorus, however, says that it still remains so to this day, and mentions a town Alalcomenae upon it, situated on the isthmus itself.

17 The poet also uses the name "Samos" for that Thrace which we now call Samothrace. And it is reasonable to suppose that he knows the Ionian Samos, for he also appears to know of the Ionian migration; otherwise he would not have differentiated between the places of the same name when referring to Samothrace, which he designates at one time by the p53epithet, "high on the topmost summit of woody Samos, the Thracian,"74 and at another time by connecting it with the islands near it, "unto Samos and Imbros and inhospitable75 Lemnos." And again, "between Samos and rugged Imbros." He therefore knew the Ionian island, although he did not name it; in fact it was not called by the same name in earlier times, but Melamphylus, then Anthemis, then Parthenia, from the River Parthenius, the name of which was changed to Imbrasus. Since, then, both Cephallenia and Samothrace were called Samos at the time of the Trojan War (for of which Hecabe would not be introduced as saying that he76 was for selling her children whom he might take captive "unto Samos and unto Imbros"),77 and since the Ionian Samos had not yet been colonised, it plainly got its name from one of the islands which earlier bore the same name. Whence that other fact is also clear, that those writers contradict ancient history who say that colonists came from Samos after the Ionian migration and the arrival of Tembrion78 and named Samothrace Samos, since this story was fabricated by the Samians to enhance the glory of their island. Those writers are more plausible who say that the island came upon this name from the fact that lofty places are called "samoi,"79 "for thence all Ida was plain to see, and plain to see were the city of Priam and the ships of the Achaeans."80 But some say that the island was p55called Samos after the Saïi, the Thracians who inhabited it in earlier times, who also held the adjacent mainland, whether these Saïi were the same people as the Sapaeï or Sinti (the poet calls them Sinties) or a different tribe. The Saïi are mentioned by Archilochus: "One of the Saïi robbed me of my shield, which, a blameless weapon, I left behind me beside a bush, against my will."81

I can't help but think that Clement of Alexandria's confusing discussion about a certain 'Epiphanes' worshipped as a god at Cephalonia who wrote books for Christians is somehow related to this.

[Stephan Huller]

On the development of the specifically Catholic Paul as Odysseus:

Fortunately, Abraham Malherbe provides just such a connection?" Building on Betz's research, Malherbe suggests that the background for Paul's martial imagery, and specifically the use of a servile schema to defeat strongholds, is part of a tradition that goes back to a well-known exploit of Odysseus described in Homer's Odyssey, one of the most important in the Trojan War. During the siege of Troy, Odysseus adopted the schema of a slave to score a crucial military victory: "Flagellating himself with degrading strokes" and "flinging a wretched garment about his shoulders" to "look like a slave," Odysseus "crept into the wide-wayed city of the men he was fighting" where they were "all taken in" (Od. 4.240-250). Whereas the Socratic tradition came to see Odysseus representing a certain type of moral sage, the sophists, most notably Gorgias, attacked Odysseus as cowardly and unscrupulous. Gorgias's student Antisthenes, however, defended Odysseus by comparing the military tactics of Odysseus and of Ajax. While Ajax lay snoring, Antistheses argues, Odysseus saved him by using "servile weapons (douloprepe hopla)," the rags, scars, and overall weak bodily presence that fooled the enemy." War tends not to be a matter of appearances, Antisthenes reminds his audience, and despite Ajax's previous mockery of Odysseus's slave schema, Odysseus in the end proved to be the better warrior." As Malherbe shows, Paul in 2 Cor 10:1-6 appropriates this Antisthenic tradition, as developed by the Cynics in the Roman period, to counter charges against his consistency, courage, and strength."

To be sure, the echo of Odysseus is not exact. Paul, unlike Odysseus, does not flagellate himself. But I argue that Paul's reference is literary. It need not correspond factually in every detail for the allusion to hold. Paul is quite willing, for example, to overlook (and change) details in other textual allusions and echoes, such as his peculiar handling of Deut 30:12 - 14 (in Rom 10:5-10) and his allegorical reading of Genesis that reverses Jewish tradition (in Gal 4:21 — 5:1). Paul has a penchant for a pesher-style commentary on passages, focusing his attention on tag phrases that connect to his own current situation, rather than paying strict adherence to wooden readings." While his opponents use the physiognomics of the slave body to question the legitimacy of Paul's personal body and logos, Paul defends himself by taking the tag of the slave schema that connects his struggle to that of Odysseus, a famous counterexample of the danger that confidence in outward appearance brings to strongholds under siege. [James Albert Harrill, Slaves in the New Testament p. 55 - 56]

I would develop the idea a little differently. The apostle of the Marcionites was unknown to those outside the sacred mysteries of the tradition. The Catholic Paul was developed with literary additions to the original Marcionite canon which reinforced this Hellenized Paul. Developing a new personality straight from the pages of the most sacred text in Greek literature undoubtedly - if my thesis holds up - to introduce Christianity in familiar concepts and images.

[RecoveringScot]

I would develop the idea a little differently. The apostle of the Marcionites was unknown to those outside the sacred mysteries of the tradition. The Catholic Paul was developed with literary additions to the original Marcionite canon which reinforced this Hellenized Paul. Developing a new personality straight from the pages of the most sacred text in Greek literature undoubtedly - if my thesis holds up - to introduce Christianity in familiar concepts and images.[/quote]

Doesn't the account of hurling a sacrificial victim from the Cape also bring to mind Hegesippus' account of the death of 'James the Just', thrown from the summit of the Temple (a place associated by Mark with the parable of the fig-tree)? James survived the fall, like some of the luckier victims of this 'religious rite'.

also this passage is interesting in that connection:

"Leucate, upon the extremity of which stood the temple of Apollo Leucatas, is a long promontory, consisting entirely of perpendicular cliffs to the westward, and falling steeply to the eastward, where it shelters from the west a bay named Vasiliko. This bay extends ten miles inland from the Cape, and terminates in a curved beach, where there is a river and some Hellenic remains.

Leake proceeds to remark that this is most likely the location of the town of Pherai mentioned by Skylax. He is probably right and Figher, “The Fig-Tree,” is probably a typically Venetian pseudo-etymology of Pherai."

Perhaps that pseudo-etymology (or maybe association of some sort) goes back much further into antiquity? It sounds like, as you say, 'traditional' tales were being either understood (or deliberately created?) by reference to Hellenic myth stories. Maybe I'm reading too much into this.

[Stephan Huller]

Well I also think of the Romans throwing Simon the Jewish revolutionary leader from the Tarpeian Rock after the war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarpeian_Rock

For me the critical thing which none of the systematizers - and all of scholarship is dominated this mindset - recognize is that we start with the assumption that the Catholic Paul 'is' the apostle. In other words, because our ancestors were handed THIS collection of letters and THAT Acts of the Apostles the fact that Paul is shown to resemble Odysseus is taken as a given 'fact.' But there were no such references in the Marcionite canon. Paul was an enigma. Could it be that the real apostle was pushed out of the way in favor of this philosophical 'ideal man' (= a second Odysseus) and Luke his companion is part of the milieu as well? I wonder.

Here is Malherbe's original arguments:

Johannes Leipoldt may be overstating the matter somewhat with his claim that the application of the imagery to the personal lives of individuals is essentially Greek and not Jewish in origin, and that this is the source of the Christian use but he is on the mark in so far as 2 Cor 10:1 - 6 is concerned. the imagery that paul uses here is part of a tradition that goes back at least to the fifth and fourth centuries bc. the following discussion will be concerned not so much with the ultimate origin of the imagery as with one tradition which appears to lie behind 2 Corinthians 10:1-6. It is not clear who first used martial imagery to describe the spiritual or intellectual struggle of individuals.22 For our purposes it suffices to note that the custom had attained currency by the time of Socrates's immedi- ate followers.23 the increased usage of the imagery was at least partly due to the idealization of the Spartans, which can be explained by the political conditions and ideology of the period. Spartans on principle rejected the efficacy of fortifications." Their attitude is contained in lacanic apophthegms attributed to various Spartans, beginning with Lycurgus and Theopompus, but especially to generals from the end of the sixth and beginning of the fifth centuries. The attribution of the same or similar statements to different persons makes it difficult to be certain that any one of them did in fact say what he is claimed to have said. What is important, however, is that the attitude expressed was taken to be Spartan and that it enjoyed wide circulation for centuries. The Spartans held that a city is well fortified when it is surrounded by brave men.26 Such men are, in effect, its walls and the virtue of its inhabitants provides sufficient fortification.28 Spartans contemptuously charged that cities fortified in "the ordinary manner were places for women to dwell in.29 These sentiments recur with regularity for centuries, most frequently, but not always identified with the Spartans, and they appear in all kinds of literature. In addition to Plutarch, who collected many of the apophthegms, such popular phllosophers as Epictetus and Dio Chrysostom registered their admiration for these ideas of the Spartans,30 and the apophthegms found their way into gnomologies. The popularity that the apophthegms enjoyed is illustrated by their use in rhetorical exercises and in orations.32 That the Spartan ideas should then appear without any attribution in the works of historians and in Christian literature is only to be expected."

While other philosophers admired the Spartans, the Cynics had a special affinity for them, and Cynics may have figured importantly in the transmission of the apophthegms attributed to Spartans.34 Antisthenes and Diogenes, each of whom was regarded in antiquity (as in modern times) as the founder of the school,35 are represented in the doxographic tradition as admiring the Spartans.36 Of special significance for us in the present context is antisthenes, who adopted and elaborated the Spartan view of moral armament, Of special significance for us in the present context is Antisthenes, who adopted and elaborated the Spartan view of moral armament, thus initiating the development of a theme that would continue to occupy philosophers, Stoics, and Cynics in particular.

According to a number of fragments representing his thought, Antisthenes applied the image of the fortified city to the sage's soul. In a statement preserved by Epiphanius he is said to have affirmed that one should not be envious of others' vices (or what they regard as shameful), for while cities' walls are ineffectual against a traitor within, the soul's walls are unshakable and cannot be broken down.37 While he here stresses inner security, Antis- thenes also recognized the importance of associating with persons of moral excellence. Elsewhere he directs: Make allies of men who are at once brave and just Virtue is a weapon that cannot be taken away (anaphaireton hoplon he\arete) It is better to be with a handful of good men fighting against the bad, than with hosts of bad men against a handful of good men." Nevertheless, what is essential is that the sage's association is to be with others like him, that is, persons who possess virtue which cannot be lost.39 It is the virtuous man's prudence (phronesis) that has a firm base (asaleuton).40 Thus Antisthenes affirmed, Prudence (phronesis) is a most secure stronghold, for it does not crumble nor is it betrayed. We must build walls of defense with our own impregnable reasonings, (analotois logismois). Here for the first time we have Paul's imagery in which the reasoning faculties (logismos, pbronesis) function in the inner fortification of a person. The image becomes common, and we shall trace it as it was used by Stoics and Cynics. Before doing so, however, it will be profitable to observe how Antisthenes applied this concern with moral armament to his interpretation of Odysseus. Odysseus came to represent a certain type of moral philosopher, and Antisthenes' brief for him is not without interest to the reader of 1 and 2 Corinthians.

The Sophists, among them Antisthenes' teacher Gorgias, had attacked Odysseus for being unscrupulous. Antisthenes defended him in two sophistic speeches and in a statement preserved in the homeric scholia. the speeches represent two types of persons. they treat the “tension between the straightforward and honorable Ajax, who is alien to all intrigues, compromises, or innovations, on the one hand, and the crafty Odysseus on the other, the man who always comes off best by his inventiveness, adaptability and shamelessness." Antithenes' Odysseus is the prototype of one kind of Cynic who becomes well known in later centuries. The setting for the two speeches is the contest of Ajax and Odysseus for Achilles' arms, and the contest is interpreted as being about virtue.43

In the Ajax the speaker is represented as brave and forthright. He insists that he is a man of deeds not words. War is not to judged by words which will not benefit anyone in battle. He had come to Troy willingly, was always arrayed foremost in battle, and was alone, without the protection of a wall. His actions are proof that he deserves to receive the armor. It is the wrong people who are presuming to be judges of virtue. Odysseus, ajax says, is a man of words. he is cowardly and would not dare (τολμήσειε) use achilles's weapons. his | participation in the battle was underhanded, for he put on rags and sneaked into troy. he acts in secret and willingly suffers ill treatment even to the point of being flogged, if he might thereby gain (kerdainein) something. Odysseus is made to reply in a longer speech. The Odysseus is directed not only to Ajax, but to all the other heroes, because Odysseus claims that he has done the expedition more good than all of them put together. ajax is ignorant, but the poor fellow cannot help it. is he really so brave? after all, he is protected by his famous shield, a veritable wall made of seven bulls' hides. Compared with Ajax, Odysseus is unarmed. He does not rush the enemies' walls but enters their city stealthily and overpowers them from within with their own weapons. "I know what is on the inside and what the enemies' condition is, and not because I send someone else to spy the situation out. In the same way that steersmen look out night and day how to save (sosousi) the sailors so do I myself and I save (sozo) both you and all the other men." All the dangers that Odysseus endured were for their benefit. He flees no danger nor would he dare (etoimon) strive for reputation, even were he a slave, poor man or flogged. He had no weapons given him for battle, yet is constantly prepared, night and day, to fight any individual or group. While Ajax is snoring, Odysseus is saving him—the only weapons over which he disposes being the servile rags (douloprepe hopla) of the rags he wears. Ajax makes the mistake of equating physical strength with bravery. One day a poet skilled in discerning virtue will come and portray Odysseus as enduring,

Have to run out, will finish transcribing later ...

[DCHindley]

Stephen,

Please, enough free association!

Don't force me to start talking in Irenaeus' "fruit language" to expound even deeper truths.

DCH

[Stephan Huller]

Ok. I will stop there for now. But I am struck by the chasm between the secretive Marcionite apostle - a figure for whom no information was apparently given to outsiders - and this idealized philosophical Odysseus prototype that we are all familiar with. The question for me - once you grant that 'Paul' came into being from the Catholic appropriation of the Marcionite canon (and likely their churches too) in the late second century, why this particular literary invention? I am struck by the similarity that emerges from the portrait of Peregrinus from Lucian of Samosata's work. The question there for me was always - why does Lucian think that Peregrinus portrays himself in absolutely philosophical terms. Over and over again Lucian's point is that Peregrinus 'is like' - or even 'is' - a second Diogenes. In other words, the fertile ground here might well have given rise to the artistic 'reinterpretation' of 'Paul' into the ideal of the Cynic community.

I think most of you accept the portrait of Paul that emerges from the Acts of the Apostles. I don't. But it has always been difficult to explain as I said, why this particular incarnation of Paul? My guess now is that it grew out of the Cynic-Christianity associated with Peregrinus.

[Stephan Huller]

And how does one reconcile the 'Jewish Paul' with the 'Cynic Paul'? There seems to be two camps in the study of early Christianity. I don't see them as being at all compatible ... unless of course we assume that the Cynic Paul was layered on top of the Jewish text by a Cynic-Christian like Peregrinus or one of his associates.

[DCHindley]

Oh well,

ANF Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter cvii (107):

But when Jonah was grieved that on the third(1) day, as he proclaimed, the city was not overthrown, [it was] by the dispensation of a cucumber(2) springing up from the earth for him, under which he sat and was shaded from the heat (now the [cucumber] gourd had sprung up suddenly, and Jonah had neither planted nor watered it, but it had come up all at once to afford him shade), and by the other dispensation of its withering away, for which Jonah grieved, [God] convicted him of being unjustly displeased because the city of Nineveh had not been overthrown, and said, ‘Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night. And shall I not spare Nineveh, the great city, wherein dwell more than six score thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?' (Jon. iv. 10 f.)

Migne 107 ἀλλὰ καὶ τοῦ Ἰωνᾶ ἀνιω μένου ἐπὶ τῷ τῇ τρίτῃ(1) ἡμέρᾳ, ὡς ἐκήρυξε, μὴ καταστραφῆναι τὴν πόλιν, διὰ τῆς οἰκονομίας τοῦ ἐκ τῆς γῆς ἀνατεῖλαι αὐτῷ σικυῶνα,(2) ὑφ' ὃν καθεζόμενος ἐσκιάζετο ἀπὸ καύματος (ἦν δὲ ὁ σικυὼν κολόκυνθα αἰφνίδιος, μήτε φυτεύσαντος τοῦ Ἰωνᾶ μήτε ποτίσαντος, ἀλλ' ἐξαίφνης ἐπανατείλας αὐτῷ σκιὰν παρέχειν), κἀκ τῆς ἄλλης ξηρᾶναι αὐτόν, ἐφ' ᾧ ἐλυπεῖτο Ἰωνᾶς, καὶ ἤλεγξεν αὐτὸν οὐ δικαίως ἀθυμοῦντα ἐπὶ τῷ μὴ κατεστράφθαι τὴν Νι νευϊτῶν πόλιν, λέγων• Σὺ ἐφείσω περὶ τοῦ σικυῶνος, οὗ οὐκ ἐκοπίασας ἐν αὐτῷ, οὔτε ἐξέθρεψας αὐτόν, ὃς ὑπὸ νύκτα αὐτοῦ ἦλθε καὶ ὑπὸ νύκτα αὐτοῦ ἀπώλετο• κἀγὼ οὐ φείσομαι ὑπὲρ Νινευΐ, τῆς πόλεως τῆς μεγάλης, ἐν ᾗ κατοικοῦσι πλείους ἢ δώδεκα μυριάδες ἀνδρῶν, οἳ οὐκ ἔγνωσαν ἀνὰ μέσον δεξιᾶς αὐτῶν καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον ἀριστερᾶς αὐτῶν, καὶ κτήνη πολλά;

1) [As i]n the LXX.
2) The translator of this passage in the ANF series recommends reading κικυῶνα (a transliteration of Hebrew "ciceion," קִיקָיוֹן, "a plant") for σικυῶνα (cucumber). [Joyce Baldwin in An Exegetical and Expository Commentary on the Minor Prophets: Jonah (1993) comments on "‏קִיקָיוֹן (a caster-oil plant): This, Ricinus communis, is the identification of the plant in modern Hebrew, also assumed by Pliny and Herodotus. The other possibility, suggested by the Septuagint, is the bottle gourd (κολοκύνθῃ) … ."] [See Jerome, to Augustine, letter LXXV.]

LXA Jonah 4:6 And the Lord God commanded a gourd [κολοκύνθῃ], and it came up over the head of Jonas, to be a shadow over his head, to shade him from his calamities: and Jonas rejoiced with great joy for the gourd [κολοκύνθῃ]. 4:7 And God commanded a worm the next morning, and it smote the gourd, and it withered away. … 4:10 And the Lord said, Thou hadst pity on the gourd [κολοκύνθης], for which thou has not suffered, neither didst thou rear it; which came up before night, and perished before another night:

BGT Jonah 4:6 καὶ προσέταξεν κύριος ὁ θεὸς κολοκύνθῃ καὶ ἀνέβη ὑπὲρ κεφαλῆς τοῦ Ιωνα τοῦ εἶναι σκιὰν ὑπεράνω τῆς κεφαλῆς αὐτοῦ τοῦ σκιάζειν αὐτῷ ἀπὸ τῶν κακῶν αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐχάρη Ιωνας ἐπὶ τῇ κολοκύνθῃ χαρὰν μεγάλην. 4:7 καὶ προσέταξεν ὁ θεὸς σκώληκι ἑωθινῇ τῇ ἐπαύριον καὶ ἐπάταξεν τὴν κολόκυνθαν καὶ ἀπεξηράνθη … 4:10 καὶ εἶπεν κύριος σὺ ἐφείσω ὑπὲρ τῆς κολοκύνθης ὑπὲρ ἧς οὐκ ἐκακοπάθησας ἐπ᾽ αὐτὴν καὶ οὐκ ἐξέθρεψας αὐτήν ἣ ἐγενήθη ὑπὸ νύκτα καὶ ὑπὸ νύκτα ἀπώλετο

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book I, chapter xi (11), mocking Valentinius' conception of first principles, creates his own arbitrary system:
There is a certain Proarche, royal, surpassing all thought, a power existing before every other substance, and extended into space in every direction.

But along with it there exists a power which I term a Gourd;

and along with this Gourd there exists a power which again I term Utter-Emptiness.

This Gourd and Emptiness, since they are one, produced (and yet did not simply produce, so as to be apart from themselves) a fruit, everywhere visible, eatable, and delicious, which fruit-language calls a Cucumber.

Along with this Cucumber exists a power of the same essence, which again I call a Melon.

These powers, the Gourd, Utter-Emptiness, the Cucumber, and the Melon, brought forth the remaining multitude [of Aeons as in Valentinius' system] …

Est quaedam Proarche regalis Proanennoetos, Proanypostatos virtus, Proprocylindomene. Cum illa autem est virtus, quam ego cucurbitam voco:

cum hac cucurbita autem est virtus, quam et ipsam voco perinane.

Haec cucurbita et perinane, cum sint unum, emiserunt, cum non emisissent, fructum, in omnibus visibilem manducabilem et dulcem, quem fructum sermo cucumerem vocat.

Cum hoc cucumere est virtus ejusdem potestatis ei, quam et ipsam peponem voco.

Hae virtutes, cucurbita, et perinane, et cucumis, et pepo, emiserunt reliquam multitudinem Valentini deliriosorum peponum.

Epiphanius:

Refutation xxiv. Marcion teaches not to partake of animal flesh, saying that those who partake of meat are liable to judgment, as though they ate souls,

[2.133] … Ἔλεγχος ˉκˉδ.. ... διδάσκει γὰρ οὗτος ἐμψύχων μὴ μεταλαμβάνειν, φάσκων ἐνόχους εἶναι τῇ κρίσει τοὺς τῶν κρεῶν μεταλήπτορας, ὡς ἂν ψυχὰς ἐσθίοντας.

Refutation xxv. [2.135] He [Marcion] falsifies the part about Jonah the prophet. He has "This generation, a sign will not be given to it." But he does not have the part about Nineveh, the queen of the South, and Solomon. [Luke 11:29ff.]

[2.135] … Ἔλεγχος ˉκˉε. ... κἂν ἀφέλῃς γὰρ τὸ περὶ Ἰωνᾶ τοῦ προφήτου [Luke 11:29], …

Refutation xxv. [H/D2.135] … You [Marcion] remove <the part> about Jonah the prophet. . . . [Luke 11:29]

Jerome, to Augustine, letter LXXV (75) in the ANF series:
At present, I deem it enough to say that in that passage, where the Septuagint has "gourd" [κολοκύνθης] and Aquila and the others have rendered the word "ivy" (κίσσος), the Hebrew Ms. has "ciceion," which is in the Syriac tongue, as now spoken, "ciceia." It is a kind of shrub having large leaves like a vine, and when planted it quickly springs up to the size of a small tree, standing upright by its own stem, without requiring any support of canes or poles, as both gourds and ivy do. If, therefore, in translating word for word [into Latin], I had put [i.e., transliterated] the word "ciceia," no one would know what it meant; if I had used the word "gourd," I would have said what is not found in the Hebrew. I therefore put down "ivy," that I might not differ from all other translators.

DCH

[Stephan Huller]

I actually enjoyed that David.

[Huon]

the latin name "lucus"From Old Latin loucos, from Proto-Indo-European *lówkos, meaning "a grove sacred to a deity".
In France, a number of places are calle "le Luc", the sacred forest.