1799 book "Revelation and Mythology"

[Blood]

In The Life of Jesus Critically Examined by D.F. Strauss (Fourth Edition, 1840), he writes that "the most extended application of the notion of the philosophical or dogmatical mythus to the Gospel histories which has yet been made was published in 1799 in an anonymous work concerning Revelation and Mythology. The writer contends that the whole life of Jesus, all that he should and would do, had an ideal existence in the Jewish mind long prior to his birth ... a popular idea of the life of Jesus grew out of various popular contributions, and from this source our written Gospels were first derived. A reviewer objects that this author appears to suppose a still smaller portion of the historical element in the gospels than actually exists. It would, he remarks, have been wiser to have been guided by a sober criticism of details, than by a sweeping scepticism." (Introduction, § 11; page 65 of the 1972 Fortress edition.)

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Does anybody know anything about this 1799 book? Is the text available?

[MrMacSon]

In The Life of Jesus Critically Examined by D.F. Strauss (Fourth Edition, 1840), he writes that

"the most extended application of the notion of the philosophical or dogmatical mythus to the Gospel histories which has yet been made was published in 1799 in an anonymous work concerning Revelation and Mythology. The writer contends that the whole life of Jesus, all that he should and would do, had an ideal existence in the Jewish mind long prior to his birth ... a popular idea of the life of Jesus grew out of various popular contributions, and from this source our written Gospels were first derived. A reviewer objects that this author appears to suppose a still smaller portion of the historical element in the gospels than actually exists. It would, he remarks, have been wiser to have been guided by a sober criticism of details, than by a sweeping scepticism." (Introduction, § 11; page 65 of the 1972 Fortress edition.)

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Does anybody know anything about this 1799 book? Is the text available?

Is there indication that the work/book(?) was/is titled "Revelation and Mythology"?

A Google search of *Revelation and Mythology 1799* (via Chrome) provides two principal Google Books references, and a possible 3rd

• Christianity and Mythology by John Mackinnon Robertson
  .
• The Historical Jesus, Volume 1 edited by Craig A. Evans
  • - this contains the quote above in full ""the most extended application ... sweeping scepticism.74"
    - unfortunately 'note 74' is on p299 which is omitted from the on-line book; and the link also omits the part of the bibliography that would include Strauss; p305
• A Ready Reference to Philosophy East and West by Eugene F. Bales

There is no specific reference to Strauss or 'Revelation and Mythology' in that latter link (Bales book), which is a link to a section on a FWJ von Schelling (1775-1854).

Part of that section says [p78]

"Schelling proposed what has been called a "philosophy of identity" as an attempt to spell out more clearly the nature of God, perhaps in response to his emphasis on the difference between nature and spirit ....

"In his later phase, which began around 1809 and lasted the rest of his life, Schelling adopts what amounts to a type of "existentialism" - a view which had little influence until the 20th century ... [He] began to consider the idea that the fundamental problem of philosophy is not the absolute so much, as the situation of human existence, not reason so much as symbol. The meaning of human existence is to be found in especially in the history of religious myth, and the task of philosophy is to heal the wounds of human existence which are so often spoken of in these myths. Schelling's "existentialism" has had some influence on Ernst Cassirer, Jaspers, Scheler, Heidegger, the Protestant theologian Paul Tillich, and others.

"Main works

• Ideas Towards a Philosophy of Nature (1797)
  On the World-Soul (1798)
  First Sketch/Plan of a System of the Philosophy of Nature (1799) - Erster Entwurf eines Systems der Naturphilosophie
  Preface to a Sketch of a System of the Philosophy of Nature (1799)(?)
  On the True Concept of the Philosophy of Nature (and the right way to solve its problems) (1800)
  System of Transcendental Idealism (1800)
  Presentation/Statement of My system of Philosophy (1801) - Darstellung meines Systems der Philosophie
  Further Presentations from the System of Philosophy (1802) - Fernere Darstellungen aus dem System der Philosophie
  Bruno, or Concerning the Divine and Natural Principle of things (1802)
  Lectures on the Method of Academic Study (1803)
  On the Relation of the Fine Arts to Nature (1807)
  Philosophical Investigations on the Essence of Human Freedom (1809)
  The Ages of the World (1811)"

It states three of his works were published post-humously, though they may have been published ant-humously

• "Introduction to Mythology
  "Philosophy of Mythology - Philosophie der Mythologie, 1842
  "Philosophy of Revelation" - Philosophie der Offenbarung, 1841–2

Another bibliography is given here http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/schelling/#Bib, including among others

• * Einleitung in die Philosophie, 1830, (Introduction to Philosophy)
  * Philosophische Einleitung in die Philosophie der Mythologie oder Darstellung der reinrationalen Philosophie, between 1847 and 1852, (Philosophical Introduction to the Philosophy of Mythology or Presentation of the Purely Rational Philosophy).

No specific Revelation and Mythology there, but seemingly similar themes and titles; though the similar titles more in the post-humous works.

I wonder if the work Strauss refers to, that Evans seemingly repeats, is Schelling's; but possibly a later work than his 1799 one, based on the titles of his works.
.

[neilgodfrey]

A google search of *Revelation and Mythology 1799* via Chrome provides 2 principal Google Books references, and a possible 3rd

• Christianity and Mythology by John Mackinnon Robertson
  .
• The Historical Jesus, Volume 1 edited by Craig A. Evans
  • - this contains the quote above in full ""the most extended application ... sweeping scepticism.74"
    - unfortunately 'note 74' is on p299 which is omitted from the on-line book; and the link also omits the part of the bibliography that would include Strauss; p305
• A Ready Reference to Philosophy East and West by Eugene F. Bales

Strauss was referring to book by A.N.Onymous.

[MrMacSon]

Strauss was referring to book by A.N.Onymous.

an Omynous sign? a revelation?

add but sure; I was only speculating those refs were relevant; in the possibility that what was then described as anonymous was actually otherwise not

It's interesting that a few seemed to be philosophising & discussing " the whole life of Jesus ... had an ideal existence in the Jewish mind" at that time.

[DCHindley]

In The Life of Jesus Critically Examined by D.F. Strauss (Fourth Edition, 1840), he writes that "the most extended application of the notion of the philosophical or dogmatical mythus to the Gospel histories which has yet been made was published in 1799 in an anonymous work concerning Revelation and Mythology. The writer contends that the whole life of Jesus, all that he should and would do, had an ideal existence in the Jewish mind long prior to his birth ... a popular idea of the life of Jesus grew out of various popular contributions, and from this source our written Gospels were first derived. A reviewer objects that this author appears to suppose a still smaller portion of the historical element in the gospels than actually exists. It would, he remarks, have been wiser to have been guided by a sober criticism of details, than by a sweeping scepticism." (Introduction, § 11; page 65 of the 1972 Fortress edition.)

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Does anybody know anything about this 1799 book? Is the text available?

According to E. S. Shaffer ('Kubla Khan' and the Fall of Jerusalem: The Mythological School in Biblical Criticism and Secular Literature 1770-1880, Cambridge University Press, Jun 5, 1980)
http://books.google.com/books?id=hnAqLU ... 99&f=false

Footnote 86 (page 322): The most extended application of the notion of the philosophical or dogmatic mythus to the Gospel histories before Strauss was, as Strauss himself pointed out, Über Offenbarung und Mythologie, Revelation and Mythology (Berlin, 1799), a response by an anonymous author to Kant’s Religion innerhalb der Grenzen der reinen Vernunft, Religion within the Bounds of Reason Alone, with which Coleridge extensively concerned himself in the Aids to Reflection. I have not been able to find any evidence that Coleridge knew the Offenbarung, often attributed to Schleiermacher, but now credited to J. C. A. Grohmann.

The author argued that the whole life of Jesus had an ideal existence in the Jewish mind long prior to his birth, and that those elements in the Gospels that did not coincide with Jewish anticipations were not historical, but the result of popular response to the disparity. Some reviewers condemned the book for ‘sweeping scepticism’, despite its apologetic intention.

DCH

[Blood]

Thanks, guys. I knew someone here would have the answer. I suspected that it was a German book. Grohmann published a book the year before entitled Kritik der christlichen Offenbahrung.

I'm interested in Strauss's influences, and this book was undoubtedly one. Too bad there was (like many important German books and articles) apparently never an English translation.

[MrMacSon]

.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Chr ... t_Grohmann gives this -

Über Mythologie und Offenbahrung, 1799 - an english Google-translation >> 'About Mythology and Revelation', 1799

[Blood]

E. S. Shaffer ('Kubla Khan' and the Fall of Jerusalem: The Mythological School in Biblical Criticism and Secular Literature 1770-1880, Cambridge University Press, Jun 5, 1980)

I've added this to my wants list.

[MrMacSon]

.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ueber-Offenbaru ... 1165918803

http://www.bookdepository.com/Ueber-Off ... 1165975976

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http://www.amazon.com/Ueber-Offenbarung ... 110460793X
.

[DCHindley]

Thanks, guys. I knew someone here would have the answer. I suspected that it was a German book. Grohmann published a book the year before entitled Kritik der christlichen Offenbahrung.

I'm interested in Strauss's influences, and this book was undoubtedly one. Too bad there was (like many important German books and articles) apparently never an English translation.

It appears there was one privately produced English language commentary regarding authorship (Grohmann vs Schleirmacher) that may contain some translation of the German book:

Revelation and mythology, Friedrich Schleiermacher versus Johann Grohmann. Arguments for attributing the work "Über Offenbarung und Mythologie" to Johann Grohmann rather than to Friedrich Schleiermacher. Author: Elliot van Nostrand Diller;
Publisher: Chester, Pa. : Crozer Theological Seminary, ©1948 Reprinted for private circulation.

Crozer Theological Seminary (the alma mater of USA civil rights leader Martin Luther King) closed in fall 1970 and merged with Colgate Rochester Bexley Hall, a divinity school in Rochester, N.Y. If the book still exists, it is probably at the latter school, now known as:

Colgate Rochester Crozer Divinity School
1100 South Goodman Street
Rochester, New York 14620.

DCH