The Solution to the Problem of 'Paul'

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
User avatar
Leucius Charinus
Posts: 2836
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:23 pm
Location: memoriae damnatio

Re: The Solution to the Problem of 'Paul'

Post by Leucius Charinus »

Blood wrote: Since Philo was using the same Bible as the Christians, the one where Χριστός appears something like 40 times, shouldn't they abandon that thesis?
There is some ambiguity here. The problem as I see it is that Χριστός actually DOES NOT EXPLICITLY APPEAR in the Bible of the Christians (or "Chrestians") because it is always used in an abbreviated, codified, encrypted, "nomina sacra" scribal form of "XP" or "XC" or "XPC". The only explicit reference is not to "Christ" (as explained) but to the word "Christians" χριστιανος as it appears in Acts 11:26, 26:28 and 1 Pet 4:16, but only from the mid 5th century (???) attestation of Codex Alexandrinus. For further info and background data check: http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/c ... stians.htm

What does this mean? IDK. But one possibility is that the term "chrestos" (not the "christos") being discussed in this thread, and juxtaposed with "the bad" may have played a role in the saga of Christian origins for a limited time, before it got white-washed into the term "christos". If you can find an explicit reference to Χριστός "Christos" before Codex Alexandrinus let me know. Alexandrinus was an extremely well-timed 17th century [Trojan?] "gift" from the archives of the "Church Organisation" at Constantinople to the King of England.


IDK.
A "cobbler of fables" [Augustine]; "Leucius is the disciple of the devil" [Decretum Gelasianum]; and his books "should be utterly swept away and burned" [Pope Leo I]; they are the "source and mother of all heresy" [Photius]
Stephan Huller
Posts: 3009
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:59 pm

Re: The Solution to the Problem of 'Paul'

Post by Stephan Huller »

Alexandrinus was an extremely well-timed 17th century [Trojan?] "gift" from the archives of the "Church Organisation" at Constantinople to the King of England.
This is the point where you whip out your dick and start publicly masturbating again. No one wants to hear this garbage. It makes you look foolish. It amounts to being little more than a self-serving suggestion, and reinforces the well-established notion of you as a relentless purveyor of a stupid theory. Give up on this nonsense and you won't look so foolish.
User avatar
DCHindley
Posts: 3434
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:53 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: The Solution to the Problem of 'Paul'

Post by DCHindley »

Blood wrote:Does Philo ever use Χριστός?
No, not the form used in the NT.

The word χριστὸς was used in one form or another, in the Greek translation of the Jewish scriptures:
Lev. 4:5, 16 "And the anointed [high] priest"
Lev. 6:15 "The anointed [high] priest"
Lev 21:10 "And the priest that is chief among his brethren, the oil having been poured upon the head of the anointed one, and he having been consecrated to put on the garments"
Lev 21:12 "because the holy anointing oil of God is upon him [the high priest of vs 10]"
1 Sam 2:10 "and will exalt the horn of his Christ" = RSV "and exalt the power of his anointed"
1 Sam 2:35 "And I will raise up to myself a faithful priest [Samuel?], who shall do all that is in my heart and in my soul; and I will build him a sure house, and he shall walk before my Christ [anointed king] for ever" = "And I will raise up for myself a faithful priest [Samuel?], who shall do according to what is in my heart and in my mind; and I will build him a sure house, and he shall go in and out before my anointed [king] for ever."
1 Sam 12:3 "Behold, here am I, answer against me before the Lord and before his anointed [king Saul]"
1 Sam. 12:5 "The Lord is witness among you, and his anointed [king, Saul,] is witness this day"
1 Sam. 16:6 "And it came to pass when they came in, that he [Samuel] saw Eliab, and said, Surely the Lord's anointed [king destined to replace Saul] is before him [hint, he wasn't, it was to be David, that is, me]."
1 Sam. 24:7, "And David said to his men, The Lord forbid it me, that I should do this thing to my lord [Saul] the [man] anointed of the Lord [as king], to lift my hand against him; for he is the [man] anointed of the Lord [as king]."
1 Sam. 24:11 "I will not lift up my hand against my lord, for he is the Lord's anointed [king]"
1 Sam 26:9 "(LXE 1Sa 26:9) And David said to Abessa, Do not lay him low, for who shall lift up his hand against the [man] anointed of the Lord [as king], and be guiltless?"
1 Sam 26:11 "The Lord forbid it me that I should lift up my hand against the [man] anointed of the Lord [as king]
1 Sam 26:16 "And this thing [Abner not realizing David had crept into Saul's tent and could have killed him, but did not] is not good which thou hast done. As the Lord lives, ye are worthy of death, ye who guard your lord the king, the [man] anointed of the Lord [as king"
etc etc etc

It is also found in Josephus:
Ant. 8:137 "but the other part up, to the roof, was plastered over"
Ant. 18:63 Testimoneum Flavianum
Ant. 20:200 The story of the execution of James by Ananas

The forms that I could locate real quickly are these:

χρίω, anoint (κέχρισται, χρίει, χρίειν, χρίσαι, χριόμενοι)
καταχρίω, to besmear with (κατέχριεν, κατέχριε, κατεκέχριστο)
χρῖσμα, ατος, τό anointing (χρίσματος)
ἀλείφω, anoint (ἐπαλείφειν, ἀλείφει)

PHI De fuga et inventione 1:110 καὶ διότι τὴν κεφαλὴν κέχρισται ἐλαίῳ, λέγω δὲ τὸ ἡγεμονικὸν φωτὶ αὐγοειδεῖ περιλάμπεται, ὡς ἀξιόχρεως "ἐνδύσασθαι τὰ ἱμάτια" νομισθῆναι ἐνδύεται δ᾽ ὁ μὲν πρεσβύτατος τοῦ ὄντος λόγος ὡς ἐσθῆτα τὸν κόσμον γῆν γὰρ καὶ ὕδωρ καὶ ἀέρα καὶ πῦρ καὶ τὰ ἐκ τούτων ἐπαμπίσχεται ἡ δ᾽ ἐπὶ μέρους ψυχὴ τὸ σῶμα, ἡ δὲ τοῦ σοφοῦ διάνοια τὰς ἀρετάς

(PHE FUG 1:110) PHE De fuga et inventione 1:110 and also because he is anointed (κέχρισται) with oil, by which I mean that the principal part of him is illuminated with a light like the beams of the sun, so as to be thought worthy to be clothed with garments. And the most ancient word of the living God is clothed with the word as with a garment, for it has put on earth, and water, and air, and fire, and the things which proceed from these elements. But the particular soul is clothed with the body, and the mind of the wise man is clothed with the virtues.

PHI De vita Mosis 2:150 τοῦ δ᾽ αἵματος αὐτοῦ τὸ μὲν ἐν κύκλῳ τοῦ βωμοῦ σπένδει λαβών, τὸ δὲ φιάλην ὑποσχὼν δέχεται καὶ ἀπὸ τούτου τρία μέρη τοῦ σώματος χρίει τῶν τελουμένων ἱερέων, οὖς ἄκρον, ἄκραν χεῖρα, ποδὸς ἄκρον, δεξιὰ τὰ σύμπαντα, αἰνιττόμενος ὅτι δεῖ τὸν τέλειον καὶ λόγῳ καὶ ἔργῳ καὶ βίῳ παντὶ καθαρεύειν• λόγον μὲν γὰρ ἀκοὴ δικάζει, χεὶρ δ᾽ ἔργου σύμβολον, διεξόδου δὲ τῆς περὶ τὸν βίον πούς.

(PHE Mos 2:150) PHE De vita Mosis 2:150 And he took the blood, and with some of it he poured a libation all round the altar, and part he took, holding a vial under it to catch it, and with it he anointed (χρίει) three parts of the body of the initiated priests, the tip of the ear, the extremity of the hand, and the extremity of the foot, all on the right side, signifying by this action that the perfect man must be pure in every word and action, and in his whole life, for it is the hearing which judges of his words, and the hand is the symbol of action, and the foot of the way in which a man walks in life;

PHI De specialibus legibus 1:231 ὅταν οὖν σφαγιασθῇ ὁ μόσχος, κελεύει τοῦ αἵματος ἐπιρραίνειν ἑπτάκις τῷ δακτύλῳ ἀντικρὺ τοῦ πρὸς τοῖς ἀδύτοις καταπετάσματος ἐσωτέρω τοῦ προτέρου, καθ᾽ ὃν τόπον ἵδρυται τὰ ἱερώτατα σκεύη, κἄπειτα τὰ τοῦ θυμιατηρίου τέτταρα κέρατα τετράγωνον γάρ ἐστι χρίειν καὶ ἐπαλείφειν, τὸ δ᾽ ἄλλο αἷμα προσχεῖν παρὰ τῇ βάσει τοῦ ἐν ὑπαίθρῳ βωμοῦ•

(PHE Spe 1:231) PHE De specialibus legibus 1:231 When, therefore, the calf has been sacrificed, the lawgiver commands the sacrificer to sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times in front of the veil which is before the holy of holies, within the former veil, in which place the sacred vessels are placed; and after that to smear (χρίειν) and anoint (ἐπαλείφειν) the four horns of the altar, for it is square; and to pour out the rest of the blood at the foot of the altar, which is in the open air.

PHI De specialibus legibus 1:233 τὰ δ᾽ αὐτὰ νομοθετεῖ καὶ περὶ παντὸς τοῦ ἔθνους ἁμαρτόντος. εἰ δέ τις ἄρχων πλημμελήσειε, χιμάρῳ ποιεῖται τὴν κάθαρσιν, ὡς εἶπον, ἐὰν δὲ ἰδιώτης, χιμαίρᾳ ἢ ἀμνάδι• τῷ μὲν γὰρ ἄρρεν, τῷ δ᾽ ἰδιώτῃ θῆλυ ζῷον ἀπένειμε, τὰ δ᾽ ἄλλα διαταξάμενος ἐπ᾽ ἀμφοῖν ὅμοια, χρίσαι τὰ κέρατα τοῦ ἐν ὑπαίθρῳ βωμοῦ τῷ αἵματι, στέαρ καὶ λοβὸν ἥπατος καὶ διττοὺς νεφροὺς ἀνενεγκεῖν, τὰ δ᾽ ἄλλα τοῖς ἱερεῦσι παρασχεῖν ἐδωδήν.

(PHE Spe 1:233) PHE De specialibus legibus 1:233 But if any ruler has sinned he makes his purification with a kid [Leviticus 4:22], as I have said before; and if a private individual has sinned, he must offer a she-goat or a lamb; and for the ruler he appoints a male victim, but to the private individual a female, making all his other injunctions the same in both cases, to anoint (χρίσαι) the horns of the altar in the open air with blood, to bring the fat and the lobe of the liver, and the two kidneys, and to give the rest of the victim to the priests to eat.

PHI De specialibus legibus 3:37 ἐπεισκεκώμακε δὲ ταῖς πόλεσιν ἕτερον πολὺ τοῦ λεχθέντος μεῖζον κακόν, τὸ παιδεραστεῖν, ὃ πρότερον μὲν καὶ λεχθῆναι μέγα ὄνειδος ἦν, νυνὶ δ᾽ ἐστὶν αὔχημα οὐ τοῖς δρῶσι μόνον, ἀλλὰ καὶ τοῖς πάσχουσιν, οἳ νόσον θήλειαν νοσεῖν ἐθιζόμενοι τάς τε ψυχὰς καὶ τὰ σώματα διαρρέουσι μηδὲν ἐμπύρευμα τῆς ἄρρενος γενεᾶς ἐῶντες ὑποτύφεσθαι, περιφανῶς οὕτως τὰς τῆς κεφαλῆς τρίχας ἀναπλεκόμενοι καὶ διακοσμούμενοι καὶ ψιμμυθίῳ καὶ φύκεσι καὶ τοῖς ὁμοιοτρόποις τὰς ὄψεις τριβόμενοι καὶ ὑπογραφόμενοι καὶ εὐώδεσι μύροις λίπα χριόμενοι προσαγωγὸν γὰρ μάλιστα ἐν τοῖς τοιούτοις τὸ εὐῶδες ἐν ἅπασι τοῖς εἰς εὐκοσμίαν ἠσκημένοις, καὶ τὴν ἄρρενα φύσιν ἐπιτηδεύσει τεχνάζοντες εἰς θήλειαν μεταβάλλειν οὐκ ἐρυθριῶσι.

(PHE Spe 3:37) PHE De specialibus legibus 3:37 VII. Moreover, another evil, much greater than that which we have already mentioned, has made its way among and been let loose upon cities, namely, the love of boys, which formerly was accounted a great infamy even to be spoken of, but which sin is a subject of boasting not only to those who practice it, but even to those who suffer it, and who, being accustomed to bearing the affliction of being treated like women, waste away as to both their souls and bodies, not bearing about them a single spark of a manly character to be kindled into a flame, but having even the hair of their heads conspicuously curled and adorned, and having their faces smeared with vermilion, and paint, and things of that kind, and having their eyes pencilled beneath, and having their skins anointed (χριόμενοι) with fragrant perfumes (for in such persons as these a sweet smell is a most seductive quality), and being well appointed in everything that tends to beauty or elegance, are not ashamed to devote their constant study and endeavors to the task of changing their manly character into an effeminate one.

PHI De vita Mosis 2:146 ὡς δὲ ταῖς ἐσθήσεσιν ἤσκησεν αὐτούς, χρίσματος εὐωδεστάτου λαβών, ὃ μυρεψικῇ τέχνῃ κατειργάσθη, τὰ ἐν ὑπαίθρῳ πρῶτα, τόν τε βωμὸν καὶ τὸν λουτῆρα, κατέχριεν ἐπιρραίνων ἑπτάκις, ἔπειτα τὴν σκηνὴν καὶ τῶν ἱερῶν σκευῶν ἕκαστον, τὴν κιβωτόν, τὴν λυχνίαν, τὸ θυμιατήριον, τὴν τράπεζαν, τὰ σπονδεῖα, τὰς φιάλας, τὰ ἄλλα ὅσα πρὸς θυσίας ἀναγκαῖα καὶ χρήσιμα, καὶ τελευταῖον προσαγαγὼν τὸν ἀρχιερέα πολλῷ λίπει τὴν κεφαλὴν ἀλείφει.

(PHE Mos 2:146) PHE De vita Mosis 2:146 XVII. And when he had thus furnished them with proper vestments, he took very fragrant ointment (χρίσματος), which had been made by the skill of the perfumer, and first of all he anointed the altar in the open air, and the laver, sprinkling it with the perfume seven times; after that he anointed (κατέχριεν) the tabernacle and every one of the sacred vessels, the ark, and the candlestick, and the altar of incense, and the table, and the censers, and the vials, and all the other things which were either necessary or useful for the sacrifices; and last of all bringing the high priest close to himself, he anointed (ἀλείφει) his head with abundant quantities of oil.

PHI De vita Mosis 2:152 πάλαι μὲν οὖν ἱερείου ἑνός, ὃ προσηγορεύετο "τελειώσεως", ἀκράτῳ αἵματι τά λεχθέντα τρία μέρη κατέχριε τῶν ἱερέων. αὖθις δ᾽ ἐκ τοῦ παρὰ τῷ βωμῷ λαβών, ὅπερ ἐξ ἁπάντων ἦν τῶν τεθυμένων, καὶ τοῦ λεχθέντος χρίσματος, ὃ μυρεψοὶ κατεσκεύασαν, ἀναμίξας τὸ ἔλαιον τῷ αἵματι τοῦ κράματος τοῖς ἱερεῦσι καὶ ταῖς ἐσθήσεσιν αὐτῶν ἐπέρραινε, βουλόμενος αὐτοὺς μὴ μόνον τῆς ἔξω καὶ ἐν ὑπαίθρῳ μεταλαχεῖν ἁγνείας, ἀλλὰ καὶ τῆς ἐν ἀδύτοις, ἐπειδὴ καὶ ἔνδον λειτουργεῖν ἔμελλον• τὰ δ᾽ εἴσω πάντα ἐλαίῳ κατεκέχριστο.

(PHE Mos 2:152) PHE De vita Mosis 2:152 XVIII. Accordingly, he first of all anointed (κατέχριε) the three parts before mentioned of the bodies of the priests with the unmixed blood of one of the victims, that, namely, which was called the ram of perfection; and afterwards, taking some of the blood which was upon the altar, being the blood of all the victims mingled together, and some also of the unguent (χρίσματος) which has already been mentioned, which the ointment makers had prepared, and mixing some of the oil with the mingled blood of the different victims, he sprinkled some upon the priests and upon their garments, with the intention that they should have a share not only in that purity which was external and in the open air, but also of that which was in the inmost shrine, since they were about to minister within the temple. And all the things within the temple were anointed (κατεκέχριστο) with oil.

Read and weep.

DCH
Stephan Huller
Posts: 3009
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:59 pm

Re: The Solution to the Problem of 'Paul'

Post by Stephan Huller »

I am going through Clement's allusions to phaulos from the beginning of the Stromata:
so that philosophy does not ruin life by being the originator (δημιουργὸν) of false practices (ψευδῶν πραγμάτων) and base deeds (φαύλων ἔργων), although some have calumniated it, though it be the clear image of truth, a divine gift to the Greeks [Strom 1.2.20.1 ]

With reason, therefore, the noble apostle, depreciating (ὁ γενναῖος ἀπόστολος, ἐκφαυλίζων) these superfluous arts occupied about words, says, "If any man do not give heed to wholesome words, but is puffed up by a kind of teaching, knowing nothing, but doting (νοσῶν) about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh contention, envy, railings, evil surmisings, perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, destitute of the truth." You see how he is moved against them, calling their art of logic -- on which, those to whom this garrulous mischievous art is dear, whether Greeks or barbarians, plume themselves -- a disease (νόσον). [1.8.40.1]
I think this is the juxtaposition between chrestos and phaulos you were looking for:
All things, therefore, are dispensed from heaven for good, "that by the Church may be made known the manifold wisdom of God, according to the eternal foreknowledge, which He purposed in Xrestos (κατὰ πρόγνωσιν τῶν αἰώνων ἣν ἐποίησεν ἐν Χρηστῷ)." Nothing withstands God: nothing opposes Him: seeing He is Lord and omnipotent. Further, the counsels and activities of those who have rebelled, being partial, proceed from a bad disposition (γίνονται μὲν ἐκ φαύλης διαθέσεως), as bodily diseases from a bad constitution (καθάπερ καὶ αἱ νόσοι αἱ σωματικαί), but are guided by universal Providence to a salutary issue (κυβερνῶνται δὲ ὑπὸ τῆς καθόλου προνοίας ἐπὶ τέλος ὑγιεινόν), even though the cause be productive of disease (κἂν νοσοποιὸς ᾖ ἡ αἰτία). It is accordingly the greatest achievement of divine Providence, not to allow the evil (κακίαν), which has sprung from voluntary apostasy, to remain useless, and for no good, and not to become in all respects injurious. For it is the work of the divine wisdom (τῆς γὰρ θείας σοφίας) , and excellence, and power (καὶ ἀρετῆς καὶ δυνάμεως), not alone to do good ( ἔργον ἐστὶν οὐ μόνον τὸ ἀγαθοποιεῖν) for this is, so to speak, the nature of God, as it is of fire to warm and of light to illumine, but especially to ensure that what happens through the evils (κακῶν) hatched by any, may come to a good (ἀγαθόν) and useful issue (χρηστὸν τέλος), and to use to advantage those things which appear to be evils (τοῖς δοκοῦσι φαύλοις χρῆσθαι), as also the testimony which accrues from temptation (ἐκ πειρασμοῦ μαρτυρί).[1.17.85.6]
User avatar
Blood
Posts: 899
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:03 am

Re: The Solution to the Problem of 'Paul'

Post by Blood »

DCHindley wrote:
Blood wrote:Does Philo ever use Χριστός?
No, not the form used in the NT.

The word χριστὸς was used in one form or another, in the Greek translation of the Jewish scriptures:
Lev. 4:5, 16 "And the anointed [high] priest"
Lev. 6:15 "The anointed [high] priest"
Lev 21:10 "And the priest that is chief among his brethren, the oil having been poured upon the head of the anointed one, and he having been consecrated to put on the garments"
Lev 21:12 "because the holy anointing oil of God is upon him [the high priest of vs 10]"
1 Sam 2:10 "and will exalt the horn of his Christ" = RSV "and exalt the power of his anointed"
1 Sam 2:35 "And I will raise up to myself a faithful priest [Samuel?], who shall do all that is in my heart and in my soul; and I will build him a sure house, and he shall walk before my Christ [anointed king] for ever" = "And I will raise up for myself a faithful priest [Samuel?], who shall do according to what is in my heart and in my mind; and I will build him a sure house, and he shall go in and out before my anointed [king] for ever."
1 Sam 12:3 "Behold, here am I, answer against me before the Lord and before his anointed [king Saul]"
1 Sam. 12:5 "The Lord is witness among you, and his anointed [king, Saul,] is witness this day"
1 Sam. 16:6 "And it came to pass when they came in, that he [Samuel] saw Eliab, and said, Surely the Lord's anointed [king destined to replace Saul] is before him [hint, he wasn't, it was to be David, that is, me]."
1 Sam. 24:7, "And David said to his men, The Lord forbid it me, that I should do this thing to my lord [Saul] the [man] anointed of the Lord [as king], to lift my hand against him; for he is the [man] anointed of the Lord [as king]."
1 Sam. 24:11 "I will not lift up my hand against my lord, for he is the Lord's anointed [king]"
1 Sam 26:9 "(LXE 1Sa 26:9) And David said to Abessa, Do not lay him low, for who shall lift up his hand against the [man] anointed of the Lord [as king], and be guiltless?"
1 Sam 26:11 "The Lord forbid it me that I should lift up my hand against the [man] anointed of the Lord [as king]
1 Sam 26:16 "And this thing [Abner not realizing David had crept into Saul's tent and could have killed him, but did not] is not good which thou hast done. As the Lord lives, ye are worthy of death, ye who guard your lord the king, the [man] anointed of the Lord [as king"
etc etc etc

It is also found in Josephus:
Ant. 8:137 "but the other part up, to the roof, was plastered over"
Ant. 18:63 Testimoneum Flavianum
Ant. 20:200 The story of the execution of James by Ananas

The forms that I could locate real quickly are these:

χρίω, anoint (κέχρισται, χρίει, χρίειν, χρίσαι, χριόμενοι)
καταχρίω, to besmear with (κατέχριεν, κατέχριε, κατεκέχριστο)
χρῖσμα, ατος, τό anointing (χρίσματος)
ἀλείφω, anoint (ἐπαλείφειν, ἀλείφει)

PHI De fuga et inventione 1:110 καὶ διότι τὴν κεφαλὴν κέχρισται ἐλαίῳ, λέγω δὲ τὸ ἡγεμονικὸν φωτὶ αὐγοειδεῖ περιλάμπεται, ὡς ἀξιόχρεως "ἐνδύσασθαι τὰ ἱμάτια" νομισθῆναι ἐνδύεται δ᾽ ὁ μὲν πρεσβύτατος τοῦ ὄντος λόγος ὡς ἐσθῆτα τὸν κόσμον γῆν γὰρ καὶ ὕδωρ καὶ ἀέρα καὶ πῦρ καὶ τὰ ἐκ τούτων ἐπαμπίσχεται ἡ δ᾽ ἐπὶ μέρους ψυχὴ τὸ σῶμα, ἡ δὲ τοῦ σοφοῦ διάνοια τὰς ἀρετάς

(PHE FUG 1:110) PHE De fuga et inventione 1:110 and also because he is anointed (κέχρισται) with oil, by which I mean that the principal part of him is illuminated with a light like the beams of the sun, so as to be thought worthy to be clothed with garments. And the most ancient word of the living God is clothed with the word as with a garment, for it has put on earth, and water, and air, and fire, and the things which proceed from these elements. But the particular soul is clothed with the body, and the mind of the wise man is clothed with the virtues.

PHI De vita Mosis 2:150 τοῦ δ᾽ αἵματος αὐτοῦ τὸ μὲν ἐν κύκλῳ τοῦ βωμοῦ σπένδει λαβών, τὸ δὲ φιάλην ὑποσχὼν δέχεται καὶ ἀπὸ τούτου τρία μέρη τοῦ σώματος χρίει τῶν τελουμένων ἱερέων, οὖς ἄκρον, ἄκραν χεῖρα, ποδὸς ἄκρον, δεξιὰ τὰ σύμπαντα, αἰνιττόμενος ὅτι δεῖ τὸν τέλειον καὶ λόγῳ καὶ ἔργῳ καὶ βίῳ παντὶ καθαρεύειν• λόγον μὲν γὰρ ἀκοὴ δικάζει, χεὶρ δ᾽ ἔργου σύμβολον, διεξόδου δὲ τῆς περὶ τὸν βίον πούς.

(PHE Mos 2:150) PHE De vita Mosis 2:150 And he took the blood, and with some of it he poured a libation all round the altar, and part he took, holding a vial under it to catch it, and with it he anointed (χρίει) three parts of the body of the initiated priests, the tip of the ear, the extremity of the hand, and the extremity of the foot, all on the right side, signifying by this action that the perfect man must be pure in every word and action, and in his whole life, for it is the hearing which judges of his words, and the hand is the symbol of action, and the foot of the way in which a man walks in life;

PHI De specialibus legibus 1:231 ὅταν οὖν σφαγιασθῇ ὁ μόσχος, κελεύει τοῦ αἵματος ἐπιρραίνειν ἑπτάκις τῷ δακτύλῳ ἀντικρὺ τοῦ πρὸς τοῖς ἀδύτοις καταπετάσματος ἐσωτέρω τοῦ προτέρου, καθ᾽ ὃν τόπον ἵδρυται τὰ ἱερώτατα σκεύη, κἄπειτα τὰ τοῦ θυμιατηρίου τέτταρα κέρατα τετράγωνον γάρ ἐστι χρίειν καὶ ἐπαλείφειν, τὸ δ᾽ ἄλλο αἷμα προσχεῖν παρὰ τῇ βάσει τοῦ ἐν ὑπαίθρῳ βωμοῦ•

(PHE Spe 1:231) PHE De specialibus legibus 1:231 When, therefore, the calf has been sacrificed, the lawgiver commands the sacrificer to sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times in front of the veil which is before the holy of holies, within the former veil, in which place the sacred vessels are placed; and after that to smear (χρίειν) and anoint (ἐπαλείφειν) the four horns of the altar, for it is square; and to pour out the rest of the blood at the foot of the altar, which is in the open air.

PHI De specialibus legibus 1:233 τὰ δ᾽ αὐτὰ νομοθετεῖ καὶ περὶ παντὸς τοῦ ἔθνους ἁμαρτόντος. εἰ δέ τις ἄρχων πλημμελήσειε, χιμάρῳ ποιεῖται τὴν κάθαρσιν, ὡς εἶπον, ἐὰν δὲ ἰδιώτης, χιμαίρᾳ ἢ ἀμνάδι• τῷ μὲν γὰρ ἄρρεν, τῷ δ᾽ ἰδιώτῃ θῆλυ ζῷον ἀπένειμε, τὰ δ᾽ ἄλλα διαταξάμενος ἐπ᾽ ἀμφοῖν ὅμοια, χρίσαι τὰ κέρατα τοῦ ἐν ὑπαίθρῳ βωμοῦ τῷ αἵματι, στέαρ καὶ λοβὸν ἥπατος καὶ διττοὺς νεφροὺς ἀνενεγκεῖν, τὰ δ᾽ ἄλλα τοῖς ἱερεῦσι παρασχεῖν ἐδωδήν.

(PHE Spe 1:233) PHE De specialibus legibus 1:233 But if any ruler has sinned he makes his purification with a kid [Leviticus 4:22], as I have said before; and if a private individual has sinned, he must offer a she-goat or a lamb; and for the ruler he appoints a male victim, but to the private individual a female, making all his other injunctions the same in both cases, to anoint (χρίσαι) the horns of the altar in the open air with blood, to bring the fat and the lobe of the liver, and the two kidneys, and to give the rest of the victim to the priests to eat.

PHI De specialibus legibus 3:37 ἐπεισκεκώμακε δὲ ταῖς πόλεσιν ἕτερον πολὺ τοῦ λεχθέντος μεῖζον κακόν, τὸ παιδεραστεῖν, ὃ πρότερον μὲν καὶ λεχθῆναι μέγα ὄνειδος ἦν, νυνὶ δ᾽ ἐστὶν αὔχημα οὐ τοῖς δρῶσι μόνον, ἀλλὰ καὶ τοῖς πάσχουσιν, οἳ νόσον θήλειαν νοσεῖν ἐθιζόμενοι τάς τε ψυχὰς καὶ τὰ σώματα διαρρέουσι μηδὲν ἐμπύρευμα τῆς ἄρρενος γενεᾶς ἐῶντες ὑποτύφεσθαι, περιφανῶς οὕτως τὰς τῆς κεφαλῆς τρίχας ἀναπλεκόμενοι καὶ διακοσμούμενοι καὶ ψιμμυθίῳ καὶ φύκεσι καὶ τοῖς ὁμοιοτρόποις τὰς ὄψεις τριβόμενοι καὶ ὑπογραφόμενοι καὶ εὐώδεσι μύροις λίπα χριόμενοι προσαγωγὸν γὰρ μάλιστα ἐν τοῖς τοιούτοις τὸ εὐῶδες ἐν ἅπασι τοῖς εἰς εὐκοσμίαν ἠσκημένοις, καὶ τὴν ἄρρενα φύσιν ἐπιτηδεύσει τεχνάζοντες εἰς θήλειαν μεταβάλλειν οὐκ ἐρυθριῶσι.

(PHE Spe 3:37) PHE De specialibus legibus 3:37 VII. Moreover, another evil, much greater than that which we have already mentioned, has made its way among and been let loose upon cities, namely, the love of boys, which formerly was accounted a great infamy even to be spoken of, but which sin is a subject of boasting not only to those who practice it, but even to those who suffer it, and who, being accustomed to bearing the affliction of being treated like women, waste away as to both their souls and bodies, not bearing about them a single spark of a manly character to be kindled into a flame, but having even the hair of their heads conspicuously curled and adorned, and having their faces smeared with vermilion, and paint, and things of that kind, and having their eyes pencilled beneath, and having their skins anointed (χριόμενοι) with fragrant perfumes (for in such persons as these a sweet smell is a most seductive quality), and being well appointed in everything that tends to beauty or elegance, are not ashamed to devote their constant study and endeavors to the task of changing their manly character into an effeminate one.

PHI De vita Mosis 2:146 ὡς δὲ ταῖς ἐσθήσεσιν ἤσκησεν αὐτούς, χρίσματος εὐωδεστάτου λαβών, ὃ μυρεψικῇ τέχνῃ κατειργάσθη, τὰ ἐν ὑπαίθρῳ πρῶτα, τόν τε βωμὸν καὶ τὸν λουτῆρα, κατέχριεν ἐπιρραίνων ἑπτάκις, ἔπειτα τὴν σκηνὴν καὶ τῶν ἱερῶν σκευῶν ἕκαστον, τὴν κιβωτόν, τὴν λυχνίαν, τὸ θυμιατήριον, τὴν τράπεζαν, τὰ σπονδεῖα, τὰς φιάλας, τὰ ἄλλα ὅσα πρὸς θυσίας ἀναγκαῖα καὶ χρήσιμα, καὶ τελευταῖον προσαγαγὼν τὸν ἀρχιερέα πολλῷ λίπει τὴν κεφαλὴν ἀλείφει.

(PHE Mos 2:146) PHE De vita Mosis 2:146 XVII. And when he had thus furnished them with proper vestments, he took very fragrant ointment (χρίσματος), which had been made by the skill of the perfumer, and first of all he anointed the altar in the open air, and the laver, sprinkling it with the perfume seven times; after that he anointed (κατέχριεν) the tabernacle and every one of the sacred vessels, the ark, and the candlestick, and the altar of incense, and the table, and the censers, and the vials, and all the other things which were either necessary or useful for the sacrifices; and last of all bringing the high priest close to himself, he anointed (ἀλείφει) his head with abundant quantities of oil.

PHI De vita Mosis 2:152 πάλαι μὲν οὖν ἱερείου ἑνός, ὃ προσηγορεύετο "τελειώσεως", ἀκράτῳ αἵματι τά λεχθέντα τρία μέρη κατέχριε τῶν ἱερέων. αὖθις δ᾽ ἐκ τοῦ παρὰ τῷ βωμῷ λαβών, ὅπερ ἐξ ἁπάντων ἦν τῶν τεθυμένων, καὶ τοῦ λεχθέντος χρίσματος, ὃ μυρεψοὶ κατεσκεύασαν, ἀναμίξας τὸ ἔλαιον τῷ αἵματι τοῦ κράματος τοῖς ἱερεῦσι καὶ ταῖς ἐσθήσεσιν αὐτῶν ἐπέρραινε, βουλόμενος αὐτοὺς μὴ μόνον τῆς ἔξω καὶ ἐν ὑπαίθρῳ μεταλαχεῖν ἁγνείας, ἀλλὰ καὶ τῆς ἐν ἀδύτοις, ἐπειδὴ καὶ ἔνδον λειτουργεῖν ἔμελλον• τὰ δ᾽ εἴσω πάντα ἐλαίῳ κατεκέχριστο.

(PHE Mos 2:152) PHE De vita Mosis 2:152 XVIII. Accordingly, he first of all anointed (κατέχριε) the three parts before mentioned of the bodies of the priests with the unmixed blood of one of the victims, that, namely, which was called the ram of perfection; and afterwards, taking some of the blood which was upon the altar, being the blood of all the victims mingled together, and some also of the unguent (χρίσματος) which has already been mentioned, which the ointment makers had prepared, and mixing some of the oil with the mingled blood of the different victims, he sprinkled some upon the priests and upon their garments, with the intention that they should have a share not only in that purity which was external and in the open air, but also of that which was in the inmost shrine, since they were about to minister within the temple. And all the things within the temple were anointed (κατεκέχριστο) with oil.

Read and weep.

DCH

"Read and weep" why, exactly? Philo uses "anointed" as a verb, never as a noun (Χριστός) like the translator of 1 Samuel.

And Josephus only uses it to mean "plastered over"? Yet another great omission.
“The only sensible response to fragmented, slowly but randomly accruing evidence is radical open-mindedness. A single, simple explanation for a historical event is generally a failure of imagination, not a triumph of induction.” William H.C. Propp
User avatar
Blood
Posts: 899
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:03 am

Re: The Solution to the Problem of 'Paul'

Post by Blood »

Leucius Charinus wrote:
Blood wrote: Since Philo was using the same Bible as the Christians, the one where Χριστός appears something like 40 times, shouldn't they abandon that thesis?
There is some ambiguity here. The problem as I see it is that Χριστός actually DOES NOT EXPLICITLY APPEAR in the Bible of the Christians (or "Chrestians") because it is always used in an abbreviated, codified, encrypted, "nomina sacra" scribal form of "XP" or "XC" or "XPC".
Are we sure that the copies of the LXX that the Christians used already had the Nomina Sacra in them? I thought it was agreed by the theologians that this was a Christian innovation.
“The only sensible response to fragmented, slowly but randomly accruing evidence is radical open-mindedness. A single, simple explanation for a historical event is generally a failure of imagination, not a triumph of induction.” William H.C. Propp
User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: The Solution to the Problem of 'Paul'

Post by MrMacSon »

Blood wrote: Are we sure that the copies of the LXX that the Christians used already had the Nomina Sacra in them? I thought it was agreed by the theologians that this was a Christian innovation.
What are the categories of theologians who think use of Nomina Sacra in copies of the LXX is a Christian innovation? Jewish? Christian? Both? Others?
User avatar
Blood
Posts: 899
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:03 am

Re: The Solution to the Problem of 'Paul'

Post by Blood »

I always heard that it was a Christian innovation. If that's true, the LXX did not have "XC" for Χριστός.
“The only sensible response to fragmented, slowly but randomly accruing evidence is radical open-mindedness. A single, simple explanation for a historical event is generally a failure of imagination, not a triumph of induction.” William H.C. Propp
User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: The Solution to the Problem of 'Paul'

Post by MrMacSon »

Blood wrote:I always heard that it was a Christian innovation. If that's true, the LXX did not have "XC" for Χριστός.
Did the the LXX have Χριστός?
User avatar
Blood
Posts: 899
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:03 am

Re: The Solution to the Problem of 'Paul'

Post by Blood »

There aren't any copies of the LXX to check.
“The only sensible response to fragmented, slowly but randomly accruing evidence is radical open-mindedness. A single, simple explanation for a historical event is generally a failure of imagination, not a triumph of induction.” William H.C. Propp
Post Reply