What is the correct date for Jesus last supper/passover?

[John T]

What is the best date for the Passover/Last Supper of Jesus?

The date for Passover/Last Supper is different for Jews and Christians. This year, April 16th 2022, Passover is observed by Rabbic Jews on Saturday. As a reminder, the date for Easter as determined by the Vatican and has nothing to do with “Passover”. The Catholic date for Easter is the first Sunday, after the first full moon, after Vernal Equinox.

Then there were the Essenes.

The Essenes had a different calendar than the Jews of Jesus' time. “Passover, the fifteenth day of the first month, was always celebrated on a Wednesday.” Geza Vermes, The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English Pg. 79. Meaning, Jesus if he was an Essene, would have had his last supper on Wednesday, April 6th (Abib 15) 30 C.E.

All this to say, the Essenes at the time of Jesus were neither Rabbic Jew nor Catholic. That the original gospel of Jesus has long since been lost to the religious leaders that proceeded him. However, the astronomical/historical record best suggests that all three would result in Easter being on Sunday, April 10th, 30 C.E.

[schillingklaus]

The correct date is never, as the gospel story is pure fiction.

[GakuseiDon]

The Essenes had a different calendar than the Jews of Jesus' time. “Passover, the fifteenth day of the first month, was always celebrated on a Wednesday.” Geza Vermes, The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English Pg. 79. Meaning, Jesus if he was an Essene, would have had his last supper on Wednesday, April 6th (Abib 15) 30 C.E.

All this to say, the Essenes at the time of Jesus were neither Rabbic Jew nor Catholic. That the original gospel of Jesus has long since been lost to the religious leaders that proceeded him. However, the astronomical/historical record best suggests that all three would result in Easter being on Sunday, April 10th, 30 C.E.

Just a thought: In the Gospel of Mark story, Pilate was represented as releasing a prisoner at the feast for the Passover, which suggests that he was using the timetable of the majority of Jews. So wouldn't that rule out the Essenes' timetable for Passover, if the Essenes were using a different calendar to the Jews of Jesus' time?

I'm just wondering if there is any reason to see the Essenes' timetable in play with regards to the timing of the crucifixion according to the Gospel?

[John T]

The correct date is never, as the gospel story is pure fiction.

The Jews have been observing Passover for thousands of years. They have a system for determining the correct date every year. You may call the gospel fiction but that does not mean Passover wasn't observed in 30 C.E.

[John T]

Just a thought: In the Gospel of Mark story, Pilate was represented as releasing a prisoner at the feast for the Passover, which suggests that he was using the timetable of the majority of Jews. So wouldn't that rule out the Essenes' timetable for Passover, if the Essenes were using a different calendar to the Jews of Jesus' time?

I'm just wondering if there is any reason to see the Essenes' timetable in play with regards to the timing of the crucifixion according to the Gospel?

I'm not aware of any such tradition for releasing a prisoner. Perhaps Pilot was confused about the scapegoat (Day of Atonement)? Two goats were selected, one goat had the sins of the Jews transferred to it and driven into the wilderness and the other was sacrificed.

Be as that may, the date for Passover was lunar based, therefore precise. However, the Essenes set their lunar clock slightly different than the High Priest of the 1st century. Even so, at times, the Passover did fall on the same day. The gospels seem to have confusion as to what day of the week was Passover. Fortunately, the cycles of the moon are so consistent that computers can calculate what day Passover would be going back thousands of years. It turns out that in 30 C.E. the date for Passover was the same for the Essenes, Jews, and the gospel alike.

I see this as evidence that Jesus could indeed have been an Essene.

[DCHindley]

Hi JohnT,

The sticking point for me is that the 364 day calendar used by the sectarians who left their literature in the Qumran area caves (not at all convinced that they were "Essenes") is not, as far as I know, securely cross dated with the lunar calendar used by the local authorities.

Since the two calendars are approximately 1.25 days different in length every year, they were slowly moving farther apart in time. We don't know whether the 364 day adherents had an intercalation scheme to bring it into synchronism with the seasons, or whether they thought this time lag was sure evidence that the world was influenced by error. Also, the Babylonians intercalated sometimes at two different points of the year, while rabbinic tradition says the Jews only intercalated an extra Adar. This could also affect correlations with the Julian year system.

It is complicated by the fact that the Babylonian version of the lunar calendar was in 1st Century CE intercalated by calculations, not by observation. We don't know whether the Judean High Priest followed the calculations, or used 1st visibility of the moon's crescent, which may cause the exact day to be off by 1-2 days from the calculation.

Where did you see a source that says these three groups observed the Passover on the same day in 30 CE? A link would be cool.

Thanks!

DCH

Just a thought: In the Gospel of Mark story, Pilate was represented as releasing a prisoner at the feast for the Passover, which suggests that he was using the timetable of the majority of Jews. So wouldn't that rule out the Essenes' timetable for Passover, if the Essenes were using a different calendar to the Jews of Jesus' time?

I'm just wondering if there is any reason to see the Essenes' timetable in play with regards to the timing of the crucifixion according to the Gospel?

I'm not aware of any such tradition for releasing a prisoner. Perhaps Pilot was confused about the scapegoat (Day of Atonement)? Two goats were selected, one goat had the sins of the Jews transferred to it and driven into the wilderness and the other was sacrificed.

Be as that may, the date for Passover was lunar based, therefore precise. However, the Essenes set their lunar clock slightly different than the High Priest of the 1st century. Even so, at times, the Passover did fall on the same day. The gospels seem to have confusion as to what day of the week was Passover. Fortunately, the cycles of the moon are so consistent that computers can calculate what day Passover would be going back thousands of years. It turns out that in 30 C.E. the date for Passover was the same for the Essenes, Jews, and the gospel alike.

I see this as evidence that Jesus could indeed have been an Essene.

[Charles Wilson]

The sticking point for me is that the 364 day calendar used by the sectarians who left their literature in the Qumran area caves (not at all convinced that they were "Essenes") is not, as far as I know, securely cross dated with the lunar calendar used by the local authorities.

We've had this conversation before. The Qumran Calendar Types used the Mishmarot Rotations to keep track of the Calendar Gymnastics (Eisenman and Wise, Dead Seas Scrolls Uncovered. E&S believe that the Qumran's will impose their Calendar when they take over.)

John T: You can find any number of New Moon Programs on the 'Net

[Bernard Muller]

Hi,
Along years of studies, I came to believe "Mark" invented the last supper as being the passover meal.
Also the date of the crucifixion was most likely 28 AD.
Of course, these conclusions are completely explained on my website.
Here is my overview of the timing of John the baptiste and Jesus public lifes: http://historical-jesus.info/digest.html
Bernard

[John T]

Hi,
Along years of studies, I came to believe "Mark" invented the last supper as being the passover meal.
Also the date of the crucifixion was most likely 28 AD.
Of course, these conclusions are completely explained on my website.
Here is my overview of the timing of John the baptiste and Jesus public lifes: http://historical-jesus.info/digest.html
Bernard

There is nothing out of place in Mark.

In your website did you factor in that the Essenes had a different calendar for Passover? The Essenes were wiped out during the Jewish Revolt of 68 C.E. By the time of Eusebius in the 4th century, the Essene calendar was long lost until until resurrected by the Dead Sea scrolls and translated by Geza Vermes and others.

[Bernard Muller]

To John T,

There is nothing out of place in Mark.

Mark forced the last supper for obvious theological reasons:

In all likelihood, "Mark" extended Jesus' stay in Jerusalem for the following reasons:
a) Give many opportunities for Jesus to preach where and to whom he never did before: in a city and to educated & prominent Jews, even priests & teachers of the Law (Mk11:18,27-33,12:1-34).
b) Have the "Last Supper" to coincide with the Jewish Passover feast.

The "Last Supper":

a) In the 1Corinthians letter, the "Last Supper" setting as a Passover meal might have been inadvertently inspired by Paul:
1Co5:6-8 "Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast--as you really are [if there was no boasting!]. For Christ, our Passover, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth."
Paul's imagery relates to the Passover (one particular day) and the overlapping Festival of the unleavened bread (14 days), when bread without yeast (a symbol of purity "sincerity and truth") is eaten, instead of the leavened bread (symbol of impurity "malice and wickedness"). Naturally, Christ's sacrifice is associated with Passover (the day in the year) as a turning point: before, "malice and wickedness"; then and after "sincerity and truth".

b) If Jesus was known to have been executed during Passover, or the day before (the day of sacrifice of the lambs - Jn18:28,19:14,31), Paul and the author of 'Hebrews' (whose main subject is the sacrifice of the Son of God) would certainly have emphatically proclaimed it and used it in their theological dissertations: they did not.

c) In 'Hebrews', there is no mention of the "Last Supper" and the Eucharist, even if the overall theme of the letter is begging for their insertions. Note: the author knew of eyewitness(es)' accounts (Heb2:3b).

d) The Eucharist's content of the "Last Supper" seems to have been inspired from Paul in his 1Corinthians epistle:
1Co6:15 "Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? ..."
1Co10:15-16 "I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say.
[these words indicate the following intellectual proposition was new for the Corinthians]
` Is not the cup of Thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?
[altogether with 1Co10:18 (see next quote), how could Paul propose such a concept if he knew Jesus originated the Eucharist and the Christians were already told about it (1Co11:23)? Note: I think now that 1Co11:23-28 is an interpolation: see here for more explanations]"
1Co10:18 "Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar?"

Note: the practice of eating bread first (in antiquity, the main food) and then after the meal drinking wine, is a Gentile tradition and not a Jewish one:
"... a two part sequence of eating and drinking, of breaking bread and pouring a libation before drinking wine, or more simply, of bread and wine, summarizes and symbolizes the whole process of a Greco-Roman formal meal"
John Dominic Crossan, The Historical Jesus.
Needless to say, after these observations, I do not trust the Last Supper in GMark to be factual.
After the extended stay in Jerusalem and the Passover Supper, "Mark" suddenly went into an "accelerated mode", as to catch up for lost time:
a) Right after the supper, Jesus is arrested.
b) "The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin" (Mk14:55a) convene and interrogate Jesus during the same night (???).
c) "Very early in the morning, the chief priests, with the elders, the teachers of the law and the whole Sanhedrin, reached a decision. They bound Jesus, led him away and handed him over to Pilate" (Mk15:1)

Note: the Sanhedrin was not supposed to be so expeditious and assemble at night. Pilate would not have appreciated to be drawn out of bed, unprepared, for some impromptu (public!) trial.
d) Jesus is crucified around nine A.M. (Mk15:25).
e) Jesus dies on the cross after only six hours (Mk15:33). Usually, it would take two to three days for a crucified one to die.

I want to add: after the disturbance in the temple (which I think as historical), it does not make any sense for the chief priests to let Jesus going to the temple the next days.

In your website did you factor in that the Essenes had a different calendar for Passover? The Essenes were wiped out during the Jewish Revolt of 68 C.E. By the time of Eusebius in the 4th century, the Essene calendar was long lost until until resurrected by the Dead Sea scrolls and translated by Geza Vermes and others.

I based my dating on Pilate starting is tenure over Judea in the fall of 26 AD.
A close analysis of the gospels indicated to me that John the Baptiste public life was rather short (a few months).
The same for Jesus immediately following JtB's arrest.
JtB & Jesus' public lifes occurred at the beginning of Pilate's rule.
See http://historical-jesus.info/appa.html & http://historical-jesus.info/appb.html

I don't need the Essene calendar, but made use of Josephus (as shown in http://historical-jesus.info/digest.html).

Bernard