Love of Money and Crassus

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Clive
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Love of Money and Crassus

Post by Clive »

Reading on line free exert of Kampfner The Rich, and I am not aware of a detailed look at the New Testament in its context of the hyper rich and powerful of Rome and Greece. Rich is a derivation of king...

Discussion I am aware of is about Christianity as a religion, but Kampfner notes one thing the hyper rich commonly do, apart from building cities and waging war, is create religions.

There is a very long list - Pharoahs, Darius, Constantine....

Emma Goldman makes a very interesting point

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Ar ... anity.html
The Failure of Christianity

by Emma Goldman

First published in April 1913, in the Mother Earth journal.

The counterfeiters and poisoners of ideas, in their attempt to obscure the line between truth and falsehood, find a valuable ally in the conservatism of language.

Conceptions and words that have long ago lost their original meaning continue through centuries to dominate mankind. Especially is this true if these conceptions have become a common-place, if they have been instilled in our beings from our infancy as great and irrefutable verities. The average mind is easily content with inherited and acquired things, or with the dicta of parents and teachers, because it is much easier to imitate than to create.

Our age has given birth to two intellectual giants, who have undertaken to transvalue the dead social and moral values of the past, especially those contained in Christianity. Friedrich Nietzsche and Max Stirner have hurled blow upon blow against the portals of Christianity, because they saw in it a pernicious slave morality, the denial of life, the destroyer of all the elements that make for strength and character. True, Nietzsche has opposed the slave-morality idea inherent in Christianity in behalf of a master morality for the privileged few. But I venture to suggest that his master idea had nothing to do with the vulgarity of station, caste, or wealth. Rather did it mean the masterful in human possibilities, the masterful in man that would help him to overcome old traditions and worn-out values, so that he may learn to become the creator of new and beautiful things.

Both Nietzsche and Stirner saw in Christianity the leveler of the human race, the breaker of man's will to dare and to do. They saw in every movement built on Christian morality and ethics attempts not at the emancipation from slavery, but for the perpetuation thereof. Hence they opposed these movements with might and main.
The other thing the hyper rich are commonly superb at is image management....Crassus made sure his myriad slaves were highly trained as architects, lawyers, scribes....

Maybe it isn't an example of conspiracy but the normal behaviour of the hyper rich and powerful? Turn the other cheek? Who benefits? Are not religions very interesting money making ventures?
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
bcedaifu
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Re: Love of Money and Crassus

Post by bcedaifu »

Thank you very much Clive, for submitting that post about one of my favorite heroines. Here's another:

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/goldman/
Emma Goldman (1869–1940) stands as a major figure in the history of American radicalism and feminism. An influential and well-known anarchist of her day, Goldman was an early advocate of free speech, birth control, women's equality and independence, and union organization. Her criticism of mandatory conscription of young men into the military during World War I led to a two-year imprisonment, followed by her deportation in 1919. For the rest of her life until her death in 1940, she continued to participate in the social and political movements of her age, from the Russian Revolution to the Spanish Civil War.
Like her Polish cousin, Rosa Luxemburg,
http://spartacus-educational.com/RUSluxemburg.htm
they were both born about the same time, both of them writing and speaking out, against common enemies, both persecuted unjustly, and both forgotten by most "intellectuals", today.

I completely agree with your premise, on this thread, Clive, that the history of nascent Christianity is certainly involved with financial considerations. It was surely not the poor people who could afford to build cathedrals and temples and houses for the bishops. Even the papyrus and ink were not within the means of the ordinary fisherman, farmer, or shepherd, assuming they miraculously learned how to read and write.
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: Love of Money and Crassus

Post by Leucius Charinus »

Clive wrote:The other thing the hyper rich are commonly superb at is image management....Crassus made sure his myriad slaves were highly trained as architects, lawyers, scribes....
And including the managers of the imperial mints? :)

Image
Maybe it isn't an example of conspiracy but the normal behaviour of the hyper rich and powerful?
War is the biggest racket. It gets an extremely few people extremely rich. Sometimes quite quickly.

And war spins off smaller rackets (such as centralised monotheistic state religious cults based on canonised 'holy writs'.)

Love of God or is there an "L" in the equation for the love of Gold.


:)
A "cobbler of fables" [Augustine]; "Leucius is the disciple of the devil" [Decretum Gelasianum]; and his books "should be utterly swept away and burned" [Pope Leo I]; they are the "source and mother of all heresy" [Photius]
Clive
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Re: Love of Money and Crassus

Post by Clive »

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
http://biblehub.com/romans/6-18.htm

Maybe Crassus's highly trained and educated slaves when remitted became Bishops, paying rent back to their former master that they collected from the people? Brilliant money making enterprise, better than watching for fires!

All that work for his construction crews in building cathedrals, bishops palaces, "employing" slave artists.....

(Not probably Crassus literally but it is an obvious business development!)
Last edited by Clive on Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Clive
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Re: Love of Money and Crassus

Post by Clive »

Hippolytus records that Marcion was the son of the bishop of Sinope, in Pontus. His near-contemporaries Rhodo and Tertullian described him as a wealthy ship owner,[2] and he is said to have made a donation of 200,000 sesterces to the church in Rome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion_of_Sinope
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steve43
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Re: Love of Money and Crassus

Post by steve43 »

Not sure where this thread is going, but probably the very best thing for a "slave" would be to in the house of Augustus. There are several examples of men born slaves who later gained great wealth and power when freed- Marcus Pallas and his brother Felix the Procurator, Alexander the Alabarch, and others.
Clive
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Re: Love of Money and Crassus

Post by Clive »

Hopefully a discussion about the real roots of christianity. Freed highly intelligent wealthy highly skilled slaves with very good connections seeing a business opportunity?
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Clive
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Re: Love of Money and Crassus

Post by Clive »

So what is wrong with my theory of christianity being the result of bored hyper rich and their highly educated and skilled freed slaves playing with some business opportunities around religion, building, old religious texts, stoic ideas, gnosis, sources of income from believers...

No conspiracy, just ad hoc experiments that eventually gelled and became institutionalised? Groups arguing about who holds franchises!
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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DCHindley
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Re: Love of Money and Crassus

Post by DCHindley »

Clive wrote:So what is wrong with my theory of christianity being the result of bored hyper rich and their highly educated and skilled freed slaves playing with some business opportunities around religion, building, old religious texts, stoic ideas, gnosis, sources of income from believers...

No conspiracy, just ad hoc experiments that eventually gelled and became institutionalised? Groups arguing about who holds franchises!
Doesn't this assume that people, everywhere, are sheep to be herded. People form beliefs over the course of a lifetime, and like steering a battleship folks just don't take sharp turns. Folks just are not going to believe something entirely new unless there is something in it for them.

He will do it if he sees an advantage such as improved relationship with patrons. This is why some elites followed Constantine and became Christians, although there were a significant number of them who happily remained pagans for several centuries afterwards.

But to do so in order to be exploited ever more efficiently? "I believe this new Christ teaching because it will allow the emperor extract more money from me." right ...

If it were really "ad hoc experiments that eventually gelled and became institutionalized" there would be a trail to follow. I just do not see this trail.

DCH
Clive
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Re: Love of Money and Crassus

Post by Clive »

Has anyone looked?
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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