Can you confirm the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden?

[semiopen]

The bible regards Adam's (and Eve's and the serpent's) actions as a sin.

This makes the OP and the title wrong.

The whole point of Judaism is following the commandments. Here God gives a commandment that is disobeyed.

Nasty Bishop repeats the serpent's argument -

And the serpent said to the woman, "You are not going to die, 5 but God knows that as soon as you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like divine beings who know good and bad." (Gen 3:4-5 TNK)

Maybe he is right, sometimes I wonder how skillful the serpent would have been in chess.

However, there is no doubt that the bible takes this activity negatively. There is certainly no Jewish opinion that considers this a positive.

Perhaps, another incoherent NT quote will refute my view, but that is not Jewish.

I gave a link to a Jewish position showing the positives.

If you are correct, then Jews should also recognize Original Sin. They do not.

They also never bemoan the loss of eternal life which indicates that it is not what we think it is and is not a great loss.

As to A & E, please tell us what is sinful about opening ones eyes and to reach out for the moral sense that God has.

It seems you are saying that being lie Gods is not a good thing.

Regards
DL

Actually I suspected you of writing that link.

The link is polemical. The writer claims the information was given to him by a Dr. Kaufman; there may have been some communication problem between them.

I have explained above that the Original Sin concept is unclear in Judaism. There was a sin of cosmic proportions that took place in Eden, both Judaism and Christianity agree on that. As the author is writing in a polemical tone he mistakenly says that the Christian view of events is bad while the Jewish one is good.

It's not that simple. This is maybe something that was written by a guy who might have considered conversion to Christianity (God forbid). It has no theological usefulness other than to cheer up someone who is depressed because he doesn't have a Christmas tree.

Judaism allegedly believes in free will as opposed to whatever Original Sin implies. Many people have wondered why we don't worship idols anymore, not only don't we worship them, we don't have the least bit of desire to worship them. What happened? Turns out the Rabbis of the great assembly prayed that we be relieved of this temptation and God said ok.

The guy in the link doesn't mention that little Jewish slap at the free will concept. Just shows his limited knowledge.

We don't like to say that a Jew's views aren't Jewish, but that doesn't mean that they aren't silly.

[Gnostic Bishop]

There was no Original Sin anywhere in Christianity until Augustine of Hippo invented it in the 5th century CE.

The Christian Greek Church does not believe in the original sin.

Islam and Judaism do not believe in the Original Sin.

The acceptance of the Doctrine of the Original Sin was limited to the Roman Church


http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congr ... ts_en.html

Thanks for this.

Unfortunately it does not prove this Jewish view.

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue [see * below], the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants. ‘There is no generation without its Abraham, Moses or Samuel,’ says the Midrash; i.e. each age is capable of realizing the highest potentialities of the moral and spiritual life. Judaism clings to the idea of Progress. The Golden Age of Humanity is not in the past, but in the future (Isaiah II and XI); and all the children of men are destined to help in the establishment of that Kingdom of God on earth. (195–196—emphases in original)"

Note how Christianity has the best age behind us.

Regards
DL

[beowulf]

If you are Jewish, feel happy about it.

[Gnostic Bishop]

If you are Jewish, feel happy about it.

I am not Jewish but find that they are a cut above what Christianity and Catholicism has become. I see Gnostic Christians as a cut above that because of their stance against Christianity's denial of equality to women and gays.

Seems like the Gnostic Christian Jesus remembers that we are to go with our heart felt judgements and not the written word.

John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Regards
DL

[DCHindley]

Hesiod, a contemporary of Homer, imagined that the expanse of heaven and the depth of hell was the distance that an anvil falls in nine days.

That is deeeep.

[Gnostic Bishop]

Hesiod, a contemporary of Homer, imagined that the expanse of heaven and the depth of hell was the distance that an anvil falls in nine days.

That is deeeep.

Too deep for me. I will go around.

Regards
DL

[semiopen]

Hesiod, a contemporary of Homer, imagined that the expanse of heaven and the depth of hell was the distance that an anvil falls in nine days.

That is deeeep.

Too deep for me. I will go around.

Regards
DL

You can imagine how the rest of us feel when you admire Judaism because of a stupid web link, written by a moron.

[Gnostic Bishop]

Hesiod, a contemporary of Homer, imagined that the expanse of heaven and the depth of hell was the distance that an anvil falls in nine days.

That is deeeep.

Too deep for me. I will go around.

Regards
DL

You can imagine how the rest of us feel when you admire Judaism because of a stupid web link, written by a moron.

That is not why but bigots do not care.

Regards
DL

[semiopen]

You can imagine how the rest of us feel when you admire Judaism because of a stupid web link, written by a moron.

That is not why but bigots do not care.

Regards
DL[/quote]

I've explained several times why the link you are so enamored of is silly.

I thought the most devastating one was that the fool takes up the serpent's argument and asserts that Adam's sin was a positive.

You on the other hand have ignored these, other than taking several days to shake off the embarrassment you must have felt when reminded of what the serpent said. Feel free to defend yourself; but a guy that has no qualms about throwing incoherent NT verses around apparently doesn't know the bible well enough to even have read Genesis 3.

May I remind you that you have made exactly the same post on probably over a dozen web forums. That is extremely peculiar behavior, perhaps psychotic.

Moreover you are not contributing in any meaningful way to this discussion.

The link you give is demonstrably stupid, yet you call it the Jewish View. That is both wrong and an insult. I strongly suspect you know this and are simply posting to belittle Judaism under the guise of liking it.

A bigot is someone who strongly and unfairly dislikes someone. How do I unfairly dislike you?

[Gnostic Bishop]

Thanks for the psychobabble. Not my game as it is mostly B S.

If you want to stick to the issue then explain what is wrong with man reaching out for the knowledge of almost everything and opening his eyes?

Seems you think we should have stayed in ignorant bliss and too stupid to even reproduce.

What is wrong with becoming as Gods in the knowing of good and evil?

Regards
DL