Historical evidence regarding Judas the Galilean

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maryhelena
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Re: Historical evidence regarding Judas the Galilean

Post by maryhelena »

Peter Kirby wrote:The original post was made in haste, and I had edited the reference out before the reply to it was posted.

Apparently the idea that some coins of the first Jewish revolt (and there seem to be some, but recent scholarship does not seem to support the idea that any of them had the names of specific men) bore the names of Simon (a first century one) and Eleazar the priest is part of 19th century scholarship.

The 19th century book:

https://books.google.com/books?id=4P84AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA193

A quote from the introduction to the same book written in a 1967 edition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kochba_Revolt_coinage
History of Jewish coinage, and of money in the Old and New Testament, Frederic William Madden, Pegasus Pub. Co., 1967, Introduction, "Madden's chapter IX, "Money Struck during the Second Revolt of the Jews," lists only those coins of "Simon Bar Cochab" which were overstruck on coins of the Roman emperors from Vespasian onwards, and which could not therefore fit in any way into Madden's scheme of the "Simon" or "Eleazar" coins allegedly of the First Revolt. He notes, of course, that some of the coins of Bar Cochab "appear to have been struck from the same stamp as those of Simon son of Gioras." His attribution of these coins to Bar Kochba follows that of Levy. The original group attributed to Bar Kochba numbered 10 silver pieces and one bronze piece in Madden's book of 1864; in 1881 they had grown to 43, including the tetradrachm with the star."

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maryhelena
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Re: And Now for Something Completely Different

Post by maryhelena »

Peter Kirby wrote:We actually have the historical names of more of the sons and grandsons, in that they all traced their ancestry to Judas.
And the ancestry of Jesus is traced all the way back to David..

Jewish War, 2.4.1
In Sepphoris also, a city of Galilee, there was one Judas (the son of that arch-robber Hezekias, who formerly overran the country, and had been subdued by king Herod); this man got no small multitude together, and brake open the place where the royal armor was laid up, and armed those about him, and attacked those that were so earnest to gain the dominion.

Jewish War, 2.8.1
AND now Archelaus's part of Judea was reduced into a province, and Coponius, one of the equestrian order among the Romans, was sent as a procurator, having the power of [life and] death put into his hands by Caesar. Under his administration it was that a certain Galilean, whose name was Judas, prevailed with his countrymen to revolt, and said they were cowards if they would endure to pay a tax to the Romans and would after God submit to mortal men as their lords. This man was a teacher of a peculiar sect of his own, and was not at all like the rest of those their leaders.

Jewish War, 2.17.8
In the mean time, one Manahem, the son of Judas, that was called the Galilean, (who was a very cunning sophister, and had formerly reproached the Jews under Cyrenius, that after God they were subject to the Romans,) took some of the men of note with him, and retired to Masada...

Jewish War, 2.17.19
A few there were of them who privately escaped to Masada, among whom was Eleazar, the son of Jairus, who was of kin to Manahem, and acted the part of a tyrant at Masada afterward.

Jewish War, 7.8.1
This fortress was called Masada. It was one Eleazar, a potent man, and the commander of these Sicarii, that had seized upon it. He was a descendant from that Judas who had persuaded abundance of the Jews, as we have formerly related, not to submit to the taxation when Cyrenius was sent into Judea to make one...

This book was written within 10 years of the war and talks of a person who was 'the son of that Judas' (Manahem) and another that was 'a descendant from that Judas' (Eleazar). It is a first person account of the historical events that left a record of a war in physical evidence. So, yes, there was a historical Judas the Galilean.
The book of Acts mentions the historical figure of Agrippa. The Romans mentioned are Felix, Festus and Gallio. Does this translate into Paul, Peter, James and John being historical figures?

Why the special pleading for Josephus?

Why deny Josephus any creative writing?

Peter, surely, one does not want to go the route of 'Josephus said it so it's so'.
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
W.B. Yeats
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