The Pentateuch Written According to Kabbalah

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
Clive
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:20 pm

Re: The Pentateuch Written According to Kabbalah

Post by Clive »

The Great Angel: A Study of Israel's Second God
Is there another theme to the Documentary Hypothesis or are references to the Holy Man, Great Angel part of one of the traditions?
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
andrewcriddle
Posts: 2817
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:36 am

Re: The Pentateuch Written According to Kabbalah

Post by andrewcriddle »

One problem is that the present form of the Pentateuch is generally regarded as a product of the Persian period, whereas assigning numerical values to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet is probably a product of the Hellenistic period.

Andrew Criddle
Stephan Huller
Posts: 3009
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:59 pm

Re: The Pentateuch Written According to Kabbalah

Post by Stephan Huller »

Andrew,

That's a theory but it's hard to accept that IMO given the numerological interest in the narrative. I'd go so far as to say that names like "Moses" and other terminology show Hebrew was artificially developed for mystical purposes.
User avatar
Peter Kirby
Site Admin
Posts: 8048
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm
Location: Santa Clara
Contact:

Re: The Pentateuch Written According to Kabbalah

Post by Peter Kirby »

Clive wrote:Why is that stranger and harder to believe?
Please don't misinterpret me. I'm not saying that I know the original intent behind the words as written by the ancient author(s) of the Torah.

I'm simply asking (Huller) for some clarification and, if possible, for any information relevant to the question.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
Secret Alias
Posts: 18362
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: The Pentateuch Written According to Kabbalah

Post by Secret Alias »

Hi Peter

I don't remember the question. I am generally not interested in another text beside the Pentateuch and it certainly was written with a numerological subtext.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
User avatar
Peter Kirby
Site Admin
Posts: 8048
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm
Location: Santa Clara
Contact:

Re: The Pentateuch Written According to Kabbalah

Post by Peter Kirby »

Secret Alias wrote:Hi Peter

I don't remember the question. I am generally not interested in another text beside the Pentateuch and it certainly was written with a numerological subtext.
Peter Kirby wrote:
Secret Alias wrote:
Is the author doing more than being clever? Does he see these as "messianic" and see their reference as something other than King David?
I guess 'messianic' is the wrong or misleading term because this has NOTHING to do with David. Is 'Mosianic' a word? It's just about Moses and his friend Ishu. Ishuanic?
I have been reading all your references to the special "Man" as part of the Pentateuch as actually references as to how later people read the Pentateuch.

I haven't been reading you as saying that the Torah's authors were trying to predict the coming of someone like Moses, totally unrelated to the kings narrated later in the Bible (David, Solomon, etc.).
That (implied) question: did the authors of the Torah really see themselves as predicting the future arrival of a Moses-like figure (in the verses quoted)?

Or were they writing in "prophecies" that had been fulfilled already (in the Davidic kingdom ... or any other past figure)?
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
Clive
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:20 pm

Re: The Pentateuch Written According to Kabbalah

Post by Clive »

I'd go so far as to say that names like "Moses" and other terminology show Hebrew was artificially developed for mystical purposes.
If one is living in a time, place and world where the gods are everywhere, and one has these new fangled tools of numbers and words, maybe distinctions we make were not there?

What if numbers were treated as part of the alphabet? Might examples of numerology actually be forms of puns, this time of numbers and words?

So things were not developed artificially for mystical purposes - everything had spiritual, numeric and alphabetic meanings - remember writing and manipulating words and letters was also seen as magical.
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
Clive
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:20 pm

Re: The Pentateuch Written According to Kabbalah

Post by Clive »

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eZG ... et&f=false

Homer and the Origin of the Greek Alphabet

The introduction of writing in Greece had huge effects, Homer being at the cusp of the epic and written ages. Similar changes are probable with the introduction of writing to other cultures - maybe Hebrew is a new fangled written language, and its alphabet includes numbers?

We define "history" in terms of writing. Maybe written languages are historic languages, also something new? And numbers are parts of the written language?

A chapter in the Archimedes Palimpsest discusses how Archimedes argued something - pictures and words were used together, not as pictures illustrating the words. The distinctions we make between words numbers and pictures were not there. Arguably, the common wish to be "holistic" and "joined up" is about trying to move between worlds that are interconnected and those that are cut up - rational.

http://www.archimedespalimpsest.org
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
Stephan Huller
Posts: 3009
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:59 pm

Re: The Pentateuch Written According to Kabbalah

Post by Stephan Huller »

Peter,

Why is it so strange when, in the first act (a) man is said to be made after the "image of God" and (b) a god of some sort is walking in the garden as a man? Chekhov's gun ...

The fact that this sub-narrative is veiled (or never explained ie how/why there is an anthropomorphic god) in itself makes manifest there is a secret doctrine in the Pentateuch (I don't care about the other texts)
User avatar
Peter Kirby
Site Admin
Posts: 8048
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm
Location: Santa Clara
Contact:

Re: The Pentateuch Written According to Kabbalah

Post by Peter Kirby »

Stephan Huller wrote:(a) man is said to be made after the "image of God" and (b) a god of some sort is walking in the garden as a man
This isn't really demonstrative for the matter in question.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
Post Reply