Biblical City of Sodom?

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Ged
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Biblical City of Sodom?

Post by Ged » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:52 pm

Has the biblical city of Sodom been found in southern Jordan? Archeologist, Steven Collins, thinks so.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 93576.html

Sodom, destroyed along with Gomorrah as a punishment for deviant behaviour, might have been excavated in the location known as Tall el-Hamaam. The Bronze Age city is expansive and fits the biblical account rather well, in that it was inhabited twice, with a long gap of 700 years inbetween.

There may be better articles around than my link, but its gives the basic news.

Amazing what happens when you turn over rocks. :shock:
The science of arranging time in periods and ascertaining the dates and historical order of past events.

Krupin
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Re: Biblical City of Sodom?

Post by Krupin » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:54 pm

Pentateuch - plagiarized from another book. Originally, Abraham freed not Sodom and Beit She'an - the city of the righteous king Melchizedek. Melchizedek blessed Abraham for the feat. Elohim performed the blessing of Melchizedek. Abram became Abraham, the patriarch, became the ruler of Canaan, Abraham's son Isaac was born.
Jerusalem in the early years after Exile feuded with the northern tribes, followers of ancient Judaism. Therefore Jerusalem priests changed the plot (as an episode of Sodom, and all of the work). Unfortunately I can not explain in detail. I know English not too good. My article on Sodom in Russian.

But for some reason it is not allowed to leave links.

semiopen
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Re: Biblical City of Sodom?

Post by semiopen » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:29 am

I thought this had come up previously here but can't find anything (maybe FRDB). This is far from recent - goes back at least 10 years - so "news" is an odd word to use.

Collins is not a serious character, has no peer reviewed articles to my knowledge (apparently they let him write something for BAR), and even his degree is questionable. He is the Executive Dean at a dubious mail order school - Trinity_Southwest_University

Whatever the guy is looking at, it probably isn't Sodom.

outhouse
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Re: Biblical City of Sodom?

Post by outhouse » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:40 pm

semiopen wrote:
Whatever the guy is looking at, it probably isn't Sodom.
Agreed.


Its wishful thinking at best.


The text all matches 5th and 6th century BC issues told through this pseudo history.

semiopen
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Re: Biblical City of Sodom?

Post by semiopen » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:24 am

Too bad I can't find the old FRDB anymore, thought they were still open for old thread reading.

I put quite a bit of work on this and thought I'd come close to refuting it. There is a book on climatic history for the region and Collins' theory of overhead bombardment seemed to be highly unlikely regarding it. i remember suggesting the possibility that whatever the event was could also have been responsible for the destruction of Jericho which is sort of in the same neighborhood.

There are two disputes, one is whether this is Sodom which almost goes without saying is false. The other is whether Sodom was in the north or south based on the biblical description - most academics say south but this guy (and at least one partially credible religious archaeologist that is associated with him) says north. Like the Torah teaches, I always go with the majority in cases like this... it's like a weird Xian dispute that is hard to understand - but that is why the guy claims it is Sodom, because it is in the north.

Not sure what caused the current activity, the BAR activity happened a few years ago.

Arguments Against Locating Sodom at Tall al-Hammam - http://blog.bibleplaces.com/2013/02/arg ... om-at.html

Maybe Collins is trying to goose book sales for Xmas.

John Kesler
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Re: Biblical City of Sodom?

Post by John Kesler » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:15 am

semiopen wrote:Too bad I can't find the old FRDB anymore, thought they were still open for old thread reading.
It is: http://bcharchive.org. Your thread is here: http://bcharchive.org/2/thearchives/sho ... l?t=323085

semiopen
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Re: Biblical City of Sodom?

Post by semiopen » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:41 am

Thanks John,

That thread was inspired by Collins hitting the big time by getting an article into BAR in 2013.

The Destruction of Sodom, Gomorrah, and Jericho: Geological, Climatological, and Archaeological Background (Neev and Emory) is the book I mentioned. The issue is the frequent earthquakes in the area during that time period - Dr.Steve, as I was calling him then, doesn't do a very good job of integrating science into his analysis; he badly wants to believe an overhead bombardment, like the bible, when an earthquake is much more likely.

I noticed Collins spends a lot of time commenting on the various blogs that criticize his work but haven't seen anything resembling peer reviewed from him since his debut in BAR.

shunyadragon
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Re: Biblical City of Sodom?

Post by shunyadragon » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:14 am

The archeological and geologic evidence for these ruins and other related sites in the region record a natural catastrophic event, which is likely what was described in the Bible. The problem with ancient worldviews is that natural catastrophic events were given supernatural causes. The Bible probably does refer to many natural events, places and human events, but in and of itself it cannot be considered an accurate historical record. There is a distinct lack of first person witnessed events. Most of the Bible represents a compilation of oral legends, edited and cut and paste earlier documents (ie Canaanite and pre Babylonian tablets.
go with the flow the river knows . . .

Frank

I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

semiopen
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Re: Biblical City of Sodom?

Post by semiopen » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:02 am

Dr Steve is coming from a literal point of view, so whether Sodom is described to the north or south is critical. It also requires destruction from an overhead bombardment.
the LORD rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah sulfurous fire from the LORD out of heaven. (Gen 19:24 TNK)
He goes into the reasons this could not have been anything else on his web site.

This is probably a case of fools rushing in, but I think my original contribution was to question his analysis. I don't think anybody that knows what they are talking about has done this yet because he hasn't made a peer reviewed case for it.

My guess is that the story got built up to explain [wiki]Lot%27s_wife[/wiki] which was located to the south.
Lot's wife looked back, and she thereupon turned into a pillar of salt. (Gen 19:26 TNK)

etsialamous
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Re: Biblical City of Sodom?

Post by etsialamous » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:56 pm

Sorry, but it is very easy to prove that the Finns are the famous sodomists. Even Oppenheimer knew it when he chose places for the manhattan-project and the names of the first and the second bomb.

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