Did Philo believe the Logos was created?

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
earlydude
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:38 am

Did Philo believe the Logos was created?

Post by earlydude » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:24 am

Or did he think it was a infinite part of God like the Wisdom?


Thx

:)

iskander
Posts: 1961
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Did Philo believe the Logos was created?

Post by iskander » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:27 am

earlydude wrote:Or did he think it was a infinite part of God like the Wisdom?


Thx

:)

Logos is a biblical understanding of the powers of God ; the Word of God serve to represent the connection between God and the material world, as in Genesis 1:3 - And God said...

earlydude
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:38 am

Re: Did Philo believe the Logos was created?

Post by earlydude » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:58 pm

Ok, so Genesis 1:3, the part that says:

"said"

Did God have to create that?

iskander
Posts: 1961
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Did Philo believe the Logos was created?

Post by iskander » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:32 pm

earlydude wrote:Ok, so Genesis 1:3, the part that says:

"said"

Did God have to create that?

The Word brings light into existence in Gen 1:3 . An example from Islam : He said "Be," and he was.

semiopen
Posts: 410
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:27 pm

Re: Did Philo believe the Logos was created?

Post by semiopen » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:19 pm

Keeping in mind my near total ignorance of this subject, my answer to the question is no.

[wiki]Philo%27s_view_of_God#The_Logos[/wiki]
The Logos is a kind of shadow cast by God, having the outlines but not the blinding light of the Divine Being.
Peter_Schäfer devotes a chapter to Philo in

The Origins of Jewish Mysticism http://www.amazon.com/Origins-Jewish-My ... +mysticism

Obviously, I haven't read this very carefully, but there is nothing I noticed that would suggest Logos is separable from God.

Wisdom and Logos are sort of separate. Proverbs 8:22 goes into a God created wisdom rap.

Also -
The LORD founded the earth by wisdom; He established the heavens by understanding;
(Pro 3:19 TNK)
I don't know the official commentary on this but it looks like this refers to the Sephirot
2 Chokhmah - "Wisdom"
3 Binah - "Understanding"
It's doesn't seem real Jewish to imagine these created separately.

semiopen
Posts: 410
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:27 pm

Re: Did Philo believe the Logos was created?

Post by semiopen » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:48 am

In the previous post, I considered writing that Logos is more or less equivalent to the first sephirot Keter - Crown. I wasn't sure about this though so I left it out.

Adam_Kadmon discusses this.
The spiritual realm of Adam Kadmon represents the sephirah (divine attribute) of Keter ("crown"), the specific divine will and plan for subsequent creation.
The talk portion of the wiki mentions a creepy incursion by Mormonism into the article (which was expunged) and points to -

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/artic ... dam-kadmon as being the original source, written by Louis_Ginzberg
That Philo's philosophic views are grounded on the Midrash, and not vice versa, is evident from his seemingly senseless statement that the "heavenly man," the οὐράνιος ἄνθρωπος (who is merely an idea), is "neither man nor woman." This doctrine, however, becomes quite intelligible in view of the following ancient Midrash. The remarkable contradiction between the two above-quoted passages of Genesis could not escape the attention of the Pharisees, to whom the Bible was a subject of close study. In explaining the various views concerning Eve's creation, they taught ('Er. 18a, Gen. R. viii.) that Adam was created as a man-woman (androgynos), explaining (Gen. i. 27) as "male and female" instead of "man and woman," and that the separation of the sexes arose from the subsequent operation upon Adam's body, as related in the Scripture. This explains Philo's statement that the original man was neither man nor woman.
This doctrine concerning the Logos, as also that of man made "in the likeness" ("De Confusione Linguarum," xxviii.), though tinged with true Philonic coloring, is also based on the theology of the Pharisees. For in an old Midrash (Gen. R. viii. 1) it is remarked: "'Thou hast formed me behind and before' (Ps. cxxxix. 5) is to be explained 'before the first and after the last day of Creation.' For it is said, 'And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters,' meaning the spirit of the Messiah ["the spirit of Adam" in the parallel passage, Midr. Teh. to cxxxix. 5; both readings are essentially the same], of whom it is said (Isa. xi. 2), 'And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him.'" This contains the kernel of Philo's philosophical doctrine of the creation of the original man. He calls him the idea of the earthly Adam, while with the rabbis the (spirit of Adam) not only existed before the creation of the earthly Adam, but was preexistent to the whole of creation. From the preexisting Adam, or Messiah, to the Logos is merely a step.
His attributing this to the Pharisees seems questionable. I wonder if this is some relic of conservative/reform Judaism, it seems to me that current academic thought doesn't go there.

Anyway, once we get into Keter, the first sephirot, the notion that this was created is even more absurd than Hochma - Wisdom.

theterminator
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:07 am

Re: Did Philo believe the Logos was created?

Post by theterminator » Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:38 pm

2 Chokhmah - "Wisdom"
the "ah" ending indicates that this word is feminine?
.

semiopen
Posts: 410
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:27 pm

Re: Did Philo believe the Logos was created?

Post by semiopen » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:03 pm

theterminator wrote:
2 Chokhmah - "Wisdom"
the "ah" ending indicates that this word is feminine?
It's feminine. The "ah" ending doesn't always work.

theterminator
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:07 am

Re: Did Philo believe the Logos was created?

Post by theterminator » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:41 am

the christians say the logos became a human male.
chukma and bina are names for a human female?
.

semiopen
Posts: 410
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:27 pm

Re: Did Philo believe the Logos was created?

Post by semiopen » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:56 am

I posted this link above.

Sephirot

Keter is at the top, the first sephira.

If you look at the diagram in the wiki, the left side is female.

Binah (understanding) is feminine, Hochma (Wisdom) is male.

Whenever I see women in an animated conversation I think, "binah binah binah." That difference is the source of all the "How was your day?" disconnects between men and women.

Gevurah (Judgement) is also feminine and Chesed (Kindness) is male.

Keter (Crown) is male. Since it is alone it pairs off with Malkhut (Kingdom) which is female, although Yesod (foundation) is sort of a phallus pointing to Malkhut.

This structure gets repeated in the various worlds and is also present in man who is in God' image.

The Sephirot probably hadn't been invented in Philo's time, but they seem to provide the proper framework.

Post Reply