captive women and mourning

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james_C
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:14 am

captive women and mourning

Post by james_C » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:20 am

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... y+21:10-14
After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month,
what is the implication for mourning for her parents? total loss of parents? total loss of family connection even if some family members were alive?

iskander
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: captive women and mourning

Post by iskander » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:02 am

james_C wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:20 am
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... y+21:10-14
After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month,
what is the implication for mourning for her parents? total loss of parents? total loss of family connection even if some family members were alive?

One comment,
She will never again see her family, and the law grants this woman a compassionate period of time to reflect on the new situation, in the hope that she will behave in a manner beneficial to her violator and hence also beneficial to her.Her husband and her children are not mourned, and this probably mean that the rapist had made sure that the beautiful woman was a virgin before accepting her as his share of the spoils.

The word 'wife' means only that she has become a concubine in the house of the conqueror.( e.g. Hagar , the mother of Ishmael, who was given to Abraham). After the ' husband ' is done with her she may be invited to go to earthly hell as a dishonoured enemy woman in enemy territory, ( as Hagar and Ishmael were)

Why would the writers of Deuteronomy find no difficulty in telling the story of such an ugly behaviour?

semiopen
Posts: 339
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:27 pm

Re: captive women and mourning

Post by semiopen » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:41 am

This positive Mitzvah is one of my favorites. Maimonides assigns it number 221.

Women often give the best commentary on this kinky stuff, for example - Deuteronomy 21:10-14: The Beautiful Captive Woman

PEARL ELMAN http://sites.utoronto.ca/wjudaism/journ ... n1elma.htm

She goes into the following issues -
1. The nature of the sexual act contempated by Deut. 21: 10-14.
2. The type of war in which it is permissible to take captives.
3a. The possible reasons for and effect of biblical permission to marry a captive woman.
3b. The attitude of the post-biblical sages to this permission.
4. When intercourse may take place.
5. The biblical rituals, their later development by the sages, and the attitude of the sages to these rituals.
6. Was the conversion of the captive woman mandatory or optional, Noahide or Israelite?
7. The rules regulating the release of the captive woman.
8. Can Deuteronomy 21:10-14 be understood as anti-rape legislation?
Needless to say, the key question is when intercourse can take place -which also needless to say, Dr. Elman puts in the middle of her excellent paper.
Bavli Kiddushin 21b addresses a number of issues related to intercourse with a captive in its discussion on whether captive women are allowed to priests. The fact that this question is asked confirms that it is only intercourse, but not marriage, which is being discussed; unlike other Israelites, priests are not allowed to marry converts. The issue is resolved that since the Torah allows captive women as a concession to the evil inclination, i.e. lust, one act of intercourse is definitely permitted. As priests also have evil inclinations, they too are allowed one act of intercourse. However, as a priest is not allowed to marry the captive, a second act of intercourse is not permitted. Clearly, one act of intercourse is the absolute minimum with which the sages can satisfy what they consider to be biblical law. It can be interpreted that the Bavli is setting limitations on availability while trying not to contravene the biblical law as the Bavli's sages understood it.
In other words, it's OK to have intercourse once, before the ritualistic matters begin (or not).

There is a weird dispute about -
You shall bring her into your house, and she shall trim her hair, pare her nails, (Deut. 21:12 TNK)
I'm not sure why TNK gives "...trim her hair" ‎ וְגִלְּחָה֙ אֶת־רֹאשָׁ֔הּ ‎ in this phrase וְגִלְּחָה means shave. ‎ However "...pare her nailsוְעָשְׂתָ֖ה אֶת־צִפָּרְנֶֽיהָ׃ ‎ the word וְעָשְׂתָ֖ה means do - so "do her nails". Rashi thinks that means let her nails grow - no doubt basing that on something in the Talmud. Anyway "cut her nails" is much more accepted.

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