Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
semiopen
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Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by semiopen » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:53 pm

Van Seters discusses this here,

https://books.google.com/books?id=qOOZg ... et&f=false

a few important pages are missing, and his logic is maybe too complex for me, so I'm not sure I'm on board with whatever he is saying. Meribah doublet looks like good google search arguments - doublet is a four letter word for god boys so that eliminates a ton of crap, maybe meribah doublet revelation is promising also.

Krupin
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Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by Krupin » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:37 pm

my opinion:
Originally, Exodus did not have chapter 17. The end of chapter 20 Numbers was different. Amalek, king of Edom, attacked the Jews. He was defeated by Joshua. Moses led the battle from the top of Mount Or. The Jews passed through the territory of the defeated Edom to Judea.
The editors want to change the route. Jews had to go around Edom and the Dead Sea. And priests «found» an ancient manuscript in which 20 Numbers ended in peace. In this manuscript there was also the 17th chapter of Exodus.
Last edited by Krupin on Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Krupin
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Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:38 am

Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by Krupin » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:37 pm

The priests explained the evolution of the text to the people. In the period of wars and cataclysms, the story was damaged. Chapter 17 of Exodus was lost. Also, the continuation of chapter 20 of Numbers was destroyed. The story of the hike around the Dead Sea completely disappeared. These parts of history were transmitted orally.

Krupin
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Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by Krupin » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:37 pm

Because of the similarity of episodes of water extraction and geographical names, the storytellers combined the stories into one. Desert and episodes of water extraction were identified.
Since in 20 Numbers the Jews entered the desert, and in the 17th Exodus they left the desert in Rephidim, the sequence of events changed. The battle with the nomad Amalik occurred after the approach of the Jews to the borders of Edom. The nomad Amalik was identified with the unnamed king of Edom.

Krupin
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Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:38 am

Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by Krupin » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:38 pm

Because of the sound similarity between the name Ohr and mountain Or, the nameless hill was identified with Mount Or. The character Ohr was forgotten. But if the Jews defeated the king of Edom , then why should they go around Edom? The narrators composed the history of the march through the territory of the defeated Edom. When the peace period came, the copyists recovered the lost written fragments from oral folk tales.
Last edited by Krupin on Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Krupin
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:38 am

Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by Krupin » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:38 pm

But, fortunately, the priests found unharmed ancient papyri. In these papyri were the chapter 17 of Exodus and the history of the Eastern campaign.
With the help of his scam, the priests discredited the history of the southern campaign, replacing it with his own composition.

semiopen
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Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by semiopen » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:59 am

The similarities in the place names are quite interesting, but the few articles I've looked at don't seem to even mention it.

There are a couple of ways to look at that, my guess is that suggests the similarities aren't a fruitful line of exploration. It's not like any knowledgeable person wouldn't have noticed that before. Still it's worth researching.

I don't agree with Krupin's analysis, too many unwarranted leaps and assumptions, and lack of consideration of other pertinent things in the bible.

For example - Why Deuteronomy has an Account of Aaron’s Death in the Wrong Place - http://thetorah.com/why-deuteronomy-has ... ong-place/
Bewildered, Rashi asks why Deuteronomy records Aaron’s death at Moserah (not Mt. Hor) and why it does so in the middle of Moses’ description of his (second) forty-day stay upon Mount Horeb. Academic biblical scholarship sheds light on these questions.
I'm not sure how great the link is but it touches on the topic of place names and issues in biblical geography. Numbers 33-34 is quite important in this regard (as I hinted above).

Dr Cohen, the author, probably would be an interesting tour guide on a trip to Israel/Jordan, not to mention comments on this thread.
Dr. Dudu Cohen (David Ben-Gad HaCohen) has a Ph.D. in Hebrew Bible from the Hebrew University (2011), where he did his undergraduate and masters training as well (1974). His dissertation is titled, Kadesh in the Pentateuchal Narratives, and deals with issues of biblical criticism and historical geography. He was a high school Bible and Jewish History teacher in Sderot, and spent 1979-1981 in Chicago as a shaliach to the United Synagogue Youth movement. Dudu has been a licensed Israeli guide since 1972. He conducts tours in Israel as well as Jordan. You may contact him at duduchn@zahav.net.il

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