Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

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Krupin
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Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by Krupin » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:53 am

why?

Krupin
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Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by Krupin » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:55 am

Why the 17 Exodus and the 20 numbers are very similar?

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Secret Alias
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Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by Secret Alias » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:46 pm

What kind of a stupid thread is this? I thought my post a link threads were the lowest bar for an OP. Similar in what way?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Secret Alias
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Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by Secret Alias » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:49 pm

Oh I get it. You may find this interesting

https://books.google.com/books?id=-wn8A ... an&f=false
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Secret Alias
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Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by Secret Alias » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:52 pm

The point is that the earliest texts were "harmonized" https://books.google.com/books?id=F4xgE ... an&f=false
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

semiopen
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Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by semiopen » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:13 pm

My interpretation of the question is Wilderness_of_Sin vs "the wilderness of Zin" Zin_Desert

These are two different places.

Sin appears in -

Setting out from Elim, the whole Israelite community came to the wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after their departure from the land of Egypt. (Exod. 16:1 TNK)

From the wilderness of Sin the whole Israelite community continued by stages as the LORD would command. They encamped at Rephidim, and there was no water for the people to drink. (Exod. 17:1 TNK)

They set out from the Sea of Reeds and encamped in the wilderness of Sin. (Num. 33:11 TNK)

They set out from the wilderness of Sin and encamped at Dophkah. (Num. 33:12 TNK)

I will pour out my anger upon Sin, the stronghold of Egypt, and I will destroy the wealth of No. (Ezek. 30:15 TNK)

I will set fire to Egypt; Sin shall writhe in anguish and No shall be torn apart; and Noph shall face adversaries in broad daylight. (Ezek. 30:16 TNK)

Zin appears in -

They went up and scouted the land, from the wilderness of Zin to Rehob, at Lebo-hamath. (Num. 13:21 TNK)

The Israelites arrived in a body at the wilderness of Zin on the first new moon, and the people stayed at Kadesh. Miriam died there and was buried there. (Num. 20:1 TNK)

For, in the wilderness of Zin, when the community was contentious, you disobeyed My command to uphold My sanctity in their sight by means of the water." Those are the Waters of Meribath-kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin. (Num. 27:14 TNK)

They set out from Ezion-geber and encamped in the wilderness of Zin, that is, Kadesh. (Num. 33:36 TNK)

Your southern sector shall extend from the wilderness of Zin alongside Edom. Your southern boundary shall start on the east from the tip of the Dead Sea. (Num. 34:3 TNK)

for you both broke faith with Me among the Israelite people, at the waters of Meribath-kadesh in the wilderness of Zin, by failing to uphold My sanctity among the Israelite people. (Deut. 32:51 TNK)

The portion that fell by lot to the various clans of the tribe of Judah lay farthest south, down to the border of Edom, which is the Wilderness of Zin. (Jos. 15:1 TNK)

austendw
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Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by austendw » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:40 pm

Krupin wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:55 am
Why the 17 Exodus and the 20 numbers are very similar?
Presumably you mean the two stories of Moses getting water from the rock?
Call me Ishmael...

semiopen
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Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by semiopen » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:37 pm

Yes, that's probably part of the question.

The water rock story is sort of a doublet.

There is the similarity in the names Sin and Zin ‎ סִ֛ין ‎ צִן֙

The water rock stories follow right after the mention of these places, and the main difference is that

I will be standing there before you on the rock at Horeb. Strike the rock and water will issue from it, and the people will drink." And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel. (Exod. 17:6 TNK)

You and your brother Aaron take the rod and assemble the community, and before their very eyes order the rock to yield its water. Thus you shall produce water for them from the rock and provide drink for the congregation and their beasts."
(Num. 20:8 TNK)

And Moses raised his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod. Out came copious water, and the community and their beasts drank.
12 But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did not trust Me enough to affirm My sanctity in the sight of the Israelite people, therefore you shall not lead this congregation into the land that I have given them."

Another similarity is

"Let Aaron be gathered to his kin: he is not to enter the land that I have assigned to the Israelite people, because you disobeyed my command about the waters of Meribah. (Num. 20:24 TNK)

while the Meribah ‎ מְרִיבָ֑ה (Strife, contention) also appears in the Exodus account.

The place was named Massah and Meribah, because the Israelites quarreled and because they tried the LORD, saying, "Is the LORD present among us or not?" (Exod. 17:7 TNK)

Possible that this is the same story told different ways but you've got to give the redactors some credit for doing a good job on keeping Sin and Zin separate.

I scanned the commentaries briefly but didn't notice any comments about this by the sages, I'll take a closer look.

BTW, Number 33-34 gives all the stops during the Exodus. Turns out that there are 42 of them which correspond to the 42 letters in the secret name of God - http://www.kabbalahnames.com/42-letters ... ana-becoah

Krupin
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Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by Krupin » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:43 pm

Except those listed above there are two more similarities
1. military conflict (In the book of numbers was prevented)
2. mount Or - man Ohr - sound similarities

semiopen
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Re: Why the book Exodus and the book of numbers are very similar?

Post by semiopen » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:16 am

I remember having difficulty with the death sentence of Moses and Aaron, a lot of it confusion with the first water rock. Seems like it wasn't all my fault for a change.

At Mount Hor, on the boundary of the land of Edom, the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, (Num. 20:23 TNK)

Mount_Hor is theoretically different than Mount_Horeb , which the sages consider synonymous with Sinai, but that is not so clear.

He said: The LORD came from Sinai; He shone upon them from Seir; He appeared from Mount Paran, And approached from Ribeboth-kodesh, Lightning flashing at them from His right. (Deut. 33:2 TNK)

O LORD, when You came forth from Seir, Advanced from the country of Edom, The earth trembled; The heavens dripped, Yea, the clouds dripped water, (Jdg. 5:4 TNK)

Could be two different revelation traditions. This is too obvious not to be discussed academically.

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