The real Ark contained pagan gods?

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John T
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The real Ark contained pagan gods?

Post by John T » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:54 pm

Apparently David didn't bring the Ark to Jerusalem after all, that honor fell on King Josiah.

"The biblical texts that recount this glorious empire and Solomon’s building of the Temple seem to have originated from the late 7th century B.C.E., in the time of King Josiah, around three centuries after the supposed Davidic era, Römer says."

www.haaretz.com/archaeology/1.809233

The article goes on to suggest the Ark at one time actually contained two pagan idols (Baal and Asherah).

http://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/1.809233.

Does this article have a ring of truth to it or just pure speculation? :scratch:

Sincerely,

John T
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."...Jonathan Swift

semiopen
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Re: The real Ark contained pagan gods?

Post by semiopen » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:41 pm

Your link seemed to tell me a lot more about Sally Field than I wanted to know.

The main fact seems to be that there is a dig at Kiriath Jearim where Israel Finkelstein is involved. So that seems credible. The article says he has found evidence of a retaining wall there from the 8th or 7th centuries BCE. That's somewhat interesting.
This wall supported an artificially flattened terrace at the top of the mound. As was common for settlements across the Levant, the terrace could have housed a temple, Finkelstein told Haaretz during a tour of the site last week.
Maybe Dr. Finkelstein is getting a bit garrulous in his later years, but the rest of the article is just the reporter boiling the pot.

Personally, I'm fine with a temple being there, but we don't know that yet.

outhouse
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Re: The real Ark contained pagan gods?

Post by outhouse » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:54 pm

John T wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:54 pm

Does this article have a ring of truth to it or just pure speculation? Sincerely,

John T
Speculation and imagination.

The people were for the most part polytheistic and the ark itself is mythical.

The pagan gods Baal and Asherah and El were all worshipped off and on until 200-400 BC

since the exodus is fiction, so is the ark

Krupin
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Re: The real Ark contained pagan gods?

Post by Krupin » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:00 am

The Ark was the Asherah’s ark. The goddess sat on the wings of the cherubs. According to the legend, the ark was made by the Philistines. They wanted to marry a goddess to a Philistine god. Therefore, the ark was brought into the temples.

But the goddess rejected all the Philistine gods. She forced the Philistines to compensate for the moral damage and let her go to the Jewish god. Solomon brought the ark to the temple of Yahweh. So Yahweh and Asherah became husband and wife.

Krupin
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Re: The real Ark contained pagan gods?

Post by Krupin » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:11 am

During the reign of King Josiah the Easter was celebrated in honor of Ashera. Asherah was the goddess of fertility and fertility. Prior to the reform of Josiah, Easter was celebrated at home and in street processions. The Levites carried the ark through the streets. Residents gave the goddess jewelry, which formed into a box of the ark.

After the reform, Josiah ordered to leave the ark in the temple and forbade him to wear it around the city. Residents came to the temple and gave gifts to the goddess.

Krupin
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Re: The real Ark contained pagan gods?

Post by Krupin » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:40 am

The Levites could not touch the box of the ark. Touch meant an intention to steal sacred gifts. It was possible to move the ark only by holding the poles. Jewels from the box were extracted only by the high priest.

Krupin
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Re: The real Ark contained pagan gods?

Post by Krupin » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:35 am

When the second book of Chronicles was canonized, the priests made a mistake. They did not erase the fragment about the ark. This fragment can be understood in two ways. 1. The Levites should bring the ark to the temple. 2. The Levites should leave the ark in the temple (should not take the ark out of the temple).
the second book of Chronicles 35.3 :
and said unto the Levites, the instructors of all Israel, consecrated to the LORD: set up the ark in the temple which Solomon, the son of David, the king of Israel, built; there is no need for you to wear it on the ramps; serve now the Lord our God and His people Israel

Krupin
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Re: The real Ark contained pagan gods?

Post by Krupin » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:37 am

To correct the error, the second book of Ezra was written. The book is not original. There is no new information in it. It is rewritten from fragments of other books. The book begins with a similar story about the ark.

the second book of the ezra Chapter 1
3. And he said to the Levites, the priests of Israel: Sanctify yourselves unto the Lord, to set the holy ark of the Lord in the temple which King Solomon the son of David built.

4. Ne will not need you to take him on ramen; serve now the Lord your God, and take care of his people Israel, and be arrayed according to your generations and your generations, according to the calendar of David, the king of Israel, and according to the splendor of Solomon his son, 5 and standing in the sanctuary, according to your Levites, before your brethren, the children of Israel, 6 according to the ordinance of the Passover lamb, and prepare sacrifices for your brethren, and keep the passover according to the commandment of the Lord given to Moses.
This text is unambiguous. The Levites should bring the ark to the temple.
The second book of Ezra by status below the second book of Chronicles. But the text about the ark is located at the very beginning. Therefore, this text is more noticeable than the analogous text in the second book of Chronicles. Thus, the first option won a complete victory.

Ulan
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Re: The real Ark contained pagan gods?

Post by Ulan » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:51 am

John T wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:54 pm
Does this article have a ring of truth to it or just pure speculation? :scratch:
As this is a joint operation between Finkelstein and Roemer, many of the ideas in the article are actually Roemer's. He is one of the proponents of the theory that Yahweh, in fact, is nothing else but a Bhaal like all the others. The joint veneration of Yahweh and Asherah in the temple is implied in the Bible itself, as is the removal of all "high places" by Josiah. The story makes sense this way.

semiopen
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Re: The real Ark contained pagan gods?

Post by semiopen » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:07 am

Israel_Finkelstein has collaborated with Römer several times. Römer isn't an archaeologist, but his school is sponsoring the dig.
Kiriath-Jearim, 2017: co-Director, the Shmunis Family excavations at Kiriath-Jearim – a key biblical site in the highlands west of Jerusalem associated with the Ark Narrative in the Book of Samuel (with Christophe Nicolle and Thomas Römer, the College de France).
An ongoing project is -
The Archaeological and Historical Realities behind the Pentateuch (2016-), with Konrad Schmid (University of Zurich), Thomas Römer and Christophe Nihan (University of Lausanne) and Oded Lipschits (Tel Aviv University).
I don't follow the chronology of the ark narrative. For example, assuming that the original was written in the 8th century BCE, the Josiah stuff happens in the 7th century. The concept of the narrative being an earlier text is plausible; one has to wonder about the other wilderness fetishes. Possibly the Haaretz article is a little confusing or inaccurate.

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