The seventy weeks of Daniel 9.24-27.

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Ben C. Smith
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The seventy weeks of Daniel 9.24-27.

Post by Ben C. Smith » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:21 pm

I have some fairly good information on how Daniel's seventy weeks were interpreted by later Jewish and Christian exegetes. But I have read and reread the relevant verses since my childhood and I am still not sure what they themselves are trying to say from the authorial perspective of Daniel:

Masoretic
LXX
Theodotion
24 ‏שָׁבֻעִ֨ים שִׁבְעִ֜ים נֶחְתַּ֥ךְ עַֽל־עַמְּךָ֣׀ וְעַל־עִ֣יר קָדְשֶׁ֗ךָ לְכַלֵּ֨א הַפֶּ֜שַׁע ולחתם וּלְהָתֵ֤ם חטאות חַטָּאת֙ וּלְכַפֵּ֣ר עָוֹ֔ן וּלְהָבִ֖יא צֶ֣דֶק עֹֽלָמִ֑ים וְלַחְתֹּם֙ חָז֣וֹן וְנָבִ֔יא וְלִמְשֹׁ֖חַ קֹ֥דֶשׁ קָֽדָשִֽׁים׃

‎25 ‏וְתֵדַ֨ע וְתַשְׂכֵּ֜ל מִן־מֹצָ֣א דָבָ֗ר לְהָשִׁיב֙ וְלִבְנ֤וֹת יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֙ם֙ עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד שָׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה וְשָׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙ רְח֣וֹב וְחָר֔וּץ וּבְצ֖וֹק הָעִתִּֽים׃

‎26 ‏וְאַחֲרֵ֤י הַשָּׁבֻעִים֙ שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ וְאֵ֣ין ל֑וֹ וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית עַ֣ם נָגִ֤יד הַבָּא֙ וְקִצּ֣וֹ בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶחֱרֶ֖צֶת שֹׁמֵמֽוֹת׃

‎27 ‏וְהִגְבִּ֥יר בְּרִ֛ית לָרַבִּ֖ים שָׁב֣וּעַ אֶחָ֑ד וַחֲצִ֨י הַשָּׁב֜וּעַ יַשְׁבִּ֣ית׀ זֶ֣בַח וּמִנְחָ֗ה וְעַ֨ל כְּנַ֤ף שִׁקּוּצִים֙ מְשֹׁמֵ֔ם וְעַד־כָּלָה֙ וְנֶ֣חֱרָצָ֔ה תִּתַּ֖ךְ עַל־שֹׁמֵֽם׃
24 Ἑβδομήκοντα ἑβδομάδες ἐκρίθησαν ἐπὶ τὸν λαόν σου καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν πόλιν Σιων συντελεσθῆναι τὴν ἁμαρτίαν καὶ τὰς ἀδικίας σπανίσαι καὶ ἀπαλεῖψαι τὰς ἀδικίας καὶ διανοηθῆναι τὸ ὅραμα καὶ δοθῆναι δικαιοσύνην αἰώνιον καὶ συντελεσθῆναι τὸ ὅραμα καὶ εὐφρᾶναι ἅγιον ἁγίων. 25 καὶ γνώσῃ καὶ διανοηθήσῃ καὶ εὐφρανθήσῃ καὶ εὑρήσεις προστάγματα ἀποκριθῆναι καὶ οἰκοδομήσεις Ιερουσαλημ πόλιν κυρίῳ. 26 καὶ μετὰ ἑπτὰ καὶ ἑβδομήκοντα καὶ ἑξήκοντα δύο ἀποσταθήσεται χρῖσμα καὶ οὐκ ἔσται καὶ βασιλεία ἐθνῶν φθερεῖ τὴν πόλιν καὶ τὸ ἅγιον μετὰ τοῦ χριστοῦ καὶ ἥξει ἡ συντέλεια αὐτοῦ μετ᾽ ὀργῆς καὶ ἕως καιροῦ συντελείας ἀπὸ πολέμου πολεμηθήσεται. 27 καὶ δυναστεύσει ἡ διαθήκη εἰς πολλούς καὶ πάλιν ἐπιστρέψει καὶ ἀνοικοδομηθήσεται εἰς πλάτος καὶ μῆκος καὶ κατὰ συντέλειαν καιρῶν καὶ μετὰ ἑπτὰ καὶ ἑβδομήκοντα καιροὺς καὶ ἑξήκοντα δύο ἔτη ἕως καιροῦ συντελείας πολέμου καὶ ἀφαιρεθήσεται ἡ ἐρήμωσις ἐν τῷ κατισχῦσαι τὴν διαθήκην ἐπὶ πολλὰς ἑβδομάδας καὶ ἐν τῷ τέλει τῆς ἑβδομάδος ἀρθήσεται ἡ θυσία καὶ ἡ σπονδή καὶ ἐπὶ τὸ ἱερὸν βδέλυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων ἔσται ἕως συντελείας καὶ συντέλεια δοθήσεται ἐπὶ τὴν ἐρήμωσιν.24 Ἑβδομήκοντα ἑβδομάδες συνετμήθησαν ἐπὶ τὸν λαόν σου καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν πόλιν τὴν ἁγίαν σου τοῦ συντελεσθῆναι ἁμαρτίαν καὶ τοῦ σφραγίσαι ἁμαρτίας καὶ ἀπαλεῖψαι τὰς ἀνομίας καὶ τοῦ ἐξιλάσασθαι ἀδικίας καὶ τοῦ ἀγαγεῖν δικαιοσύνην αἰώνιον καὶ τοῦ σφραγίσαι ὅρασιν καὶ προφήτην καὶ τοῦ χρῖσαι ἅγιον ἁγίων. 25 καὶ γνώσῃ καὶ συνήσεις ἀπὸ ἐξόδου λόγου τοῦ ἀποκριθῆναι καὶ τοῦ οἰκοδομῆσαι Ιερουσαλημ ἕως χριστοῦ ἡγουμένου ἑβδομάδες ἑπτὰ καὶ ἑβδομάδες ἑξήκοντα δύο καὶ ἐπιστρέψει καὶ οἰκοδομηθήσεται πλατεῖα καὶ τεῖχος καὶ ἐκκενωθήσονται οἱ καιροί. 26 καὶ μετὰ τὰς ἑβδομάδας τὰς ἑξήκοντα δύο ἐξολεθρευθήσεται χρῖσμα καὶ κρίμα οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν αὐτῷ καὶ τὴν πόλιν καὶ τὸ ἅγιον διαφθερεῖ σὺν τῷ ἡγουμένῳ τῷ ἐρχομένῳ καὶ ἐκκοπήσονται ἐν κατακλυσμῷ καὶ ἕως τέλους πολέμου συντετμημένου τάξει ἀφανισμοῖς. 27 καὶ δυναμώσει διαθήκην πολλοῖς ἑβδομὰς μία καὶ ἐν τῷ ἡμίσει τῆς ἑβδομάδος ἀρθήσεταί μου θυσία καὶ σπονδή καὶ ἐπὶ τὸ ἱερὸν βδέλυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων καὶ ἕως συντελείας καιροῦ συντέλεια δοθήσεται ἐπὶ τὴν ἐρήμωσιν.
RSV: 24 "Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. 25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed. 27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."NETS: 24 "Seventy weeks have been decided for your people and for the city, Sion: for sin to be consummated and to make iniquities scarce and to blot out iniquities and to comprehend the vision and for everlasting righteousness to be given and for the vision to be consummated and to gladden a holy of holies. 25 And you shall understand and will rejoice and will discover ordinances to respond, and you will build Ierousalem as a city for the Lord. 26 And after seven and seventy and sixty-two weeks, an anointing will be removed and will not be. And a king of nations will demolish the city and the sanctuary along with the anointed one, and his consummation will come with wrath even until the time of consummation. He will be attacked through war. 27 And the covenant will prevail for many, and it will return again and be rebuilt broad and long. And at the consummation of times even after seven years and seventy times and sixty-two times until the time of the consummation of the war even desolation will be removed when the covenant prevails for many weeks. And in half of the week the sacrifice and the libation will cease, and in the temple there will be an abomination of desolations until the consummation of a season, and a consummation will be given for the desolation."NETS: 24 "Seventy weeks have been cut short for your people and for the holy city: for sin to be consummated and to seal sins and to atone for iniquities and to bring everlasting righteousness and to seal vision and prophet and to anoint a holy of holies. 25 And you shall know and shall understand: from the going forth of the word to respond to and to rebuild Ierousalem until an anointed leader, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks, and it will return, and streets and a wall will be built, and the seasons will be emptied out. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointing will be destroyed, and there is no judgment in it. And it will destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the leader who is to come. And they will be cut off by a flood, and there will be annihilations to the finish of a shortened war. 27 And it will strengthen a covenant with many, one week, and by half of the week sacrifice and libation will cease, and in the temple there will be an abomination of desolations even until a consummation, and a consummation will be given for the desolation."

Especially of interest are issues related to the messiah figure and to the future destruction of the city and the sanctuary. What is being predicted here (whether after the fact or before)?

Ben.
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Ethan
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Re: The seventy weeks of Daniel 9.24-27.

Post by Ethan » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:07 pm

Daniel seems to be rendition of the Book of Isaiah, 'restore and to build Jerusalem ' , see Isaiah 44:28 ' 'Thou shalt be built' ( Cyrus to build Jerusalem) and Isaiah 45:1 'Thus the Lord to his Messiah Cyrus' , Dan 9 begins ' First year of Darius' then the next chapter says ' The Third year of Cyrus' , so between these chapters, must be referring to a coup between Darius and Cyrus.

In Daniel 9:1 , Darius is of the Seed of the Medes and is called 'King of Chaldea ', this is an important clue for Cyrus in the following chapter is not titled 'King of Chaldea', for the coup dissolved that office ( Fall of Babylon), however there was no Darius before Cyrus the Great and no Cyrus after Darius II and thus deduce him to Darius III ( the Last king of Babylon) hence explaining why Daniel refers to him as 'Darius the Mede' alluding to his illegitimacy .

Daniel 9:24 'anoint the most Holy.' , Persian monarchs weren't anointed in that fashion, however Alexander the Great was and the name Cyrus confused with his Asiatic title Kyrios (κύριος) also written κῦρος (κῦρος) (כּוֹרֶשׁ) , this confusion is apparent in Daniel 8 which interprets King Cyrus having two long Ram horns ( Dhul-Qarnayn ) , however this is how Alexander the Great was depicted in the Levant , symbolising his use of battering rams during the siege of Tyre in 332 BCE ( the destruction of the City).
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf

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DCHindley
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Re: The seventy weeks of Daniel 9.24-27.

Post by DCHindley » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:45 pm

Well,

It was necessary to put together a rather detailed breakdown of what exactly is said to be going on in (most) all of its elemental levels.

Masoretic
RSV
NETS Old Greek
NETS E.T of OG
Theodotion
NETS Theodotion
24a ‏שָׁבֻעִ֨ים שִׁבְעִ֜ים נֶחְתַּ֥ךְ 24a "Seventy weeks of years are decreed 24 Ἑβδομήκοντα ἑβδομάδες ἐκρίθησαν 24a "Seventy weeks have been decided 24a Ἑβδομήκοντα ἑβδομάδες συνετμήθησαν 24a "Seventy weeks have been cut short
24b עַֽל־עַמְּךָ֣׀ 24b concerning your people 24b ἐπὶ τὸν λαόν σου 24b for your people 24b ἐπὶ τὸν λαόν σου 24b for your people
24c וְעַל־עִ֣יר קָדְשֶׁ֗ךָ 24c and your holy city, 24c καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν πόλιν Σιων 24c and for the city, Sion: 24c καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν πόλιν τὴν ἁγίαν σου 24c and for your holy city:
24d לְכַלֵּ֨א הַפֶּ֜שַׁע 24d to finish the transgression, 24d συντελεσθῆναι τὴν ἁμαρτίαν 24d for sin to be consummated 24d τοῦ συντελεσθῆναι ἁμαρτίαν 24d for sin to be consummated
24e ולחתם וּלְהָתֵ֤ם חטאות חַטָּאת֙ 24e to put an end to sin, 24e καὶ τὰς ἀδικίας σπανίσαι 24e and to make iniquities scarce 24e καὶ τοῦ σφραγίσαι ἁμαρτίας 24e and to seal sins
24f וּלְכַפֵּ֣ר עָוֹ֔ן 24f and to atone for iniquity, 24f καὶ ἀπαλεῖψαι τὰς ἀδικίας 24f and to blot out iniquities 24f1 καὶ ἀπαλεῖψαι τὰς ἀνομίας
24f2 καὶ τοῦ ἐξιλάσασθαι ἀδικίας
24f1 and to atone for iniquities
24f2 and expunge the lawlessness
24g 24g 24g καὶ διανοηθῆναι τὸ ὅραμα 24g and to comprehend the vision 24g 24g
24h וּלְהָבִ֖יא צֶ֣דֶק עֹֽלָמִ֑ים 24h to bring in everlasting righteousness, 24h καὶ δοθῆναι δικαιοσύνην αἰώνιον 24h and for everlasting righteousness to be given 24h καὶ τοῦ ἀγαγεῖν δικαιοσύνην αἰώνιον 24h and to bring everlasting righteousness
24i וְלַחְתֹּם֙ חָז֣וֹן 24i to seal both vision 24i καὶ συντελεσθῆναι τὸ ὅραμα 24i and for the vision to be consummated 24i καὶ τοῦ σφραγίσαι ὅρασιν 24i and to seal vision
24j וְנָבִ֔יא 24j and prophet, 24j 24j 24j καὶ προφήτην 24j and prophet
24k וְלִמְשֹׁ֖חַ קֹ֥דֶשׁ קָֽדָשִֽׁים׃ 24k and to anoint a most holy place. 24k καὶ εὐφρᾶναι ἅγιον ἁγίων. 24k and to gladden a holy of holies. 24k καὶ τοῦ χρῖσαι ἅγιον ἁγίων. 24k and to anoint a holy of holies.
‎25a ‏וְתֵדַ֨ע וְתַשְׂכֵּ֜ל 25a Know therefore and understand 25a καὶ γνώσῃ καὶ διανοηθήσῃ 25a And you shall know and understand 25a καὶ γνώσῃ καὶ συνήσεις 25a And you shall know and shall understand:
25b 25b 25b καὶ εὐφρανθήσῃ 25b and will rejoice 25b 25b
25c מִן־מֹצָ֣א דָבָ֗ר 25c that from the going forth of the word 25c καὶ εὑρήσεις προστάγματα ἀποκριθῆναι 25c and will discover ordinances to respond, 25c ἀπὸ ἐξόδου λόγου τοῦ ἀποκριθῆναι 25c from the going forth of the word to respond to
25d לְהָשִׁיב֙ וְלִבְנ֤וֹת יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֙ם֙ 25d to restore and build Jerusalem 25d καὶ οἰκοδομήσεις Ιερουσαλημ 25d and you will build Ierousalem 25d καὶ τοῦ οἰκοδομῆσαι Ιερουσαλημ 25d and to rebuild Ierousalem
25e 25e 25e πόλιν κυρίῳ. 25e as a city for (the) Lord. 25e 25e
25f עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד 25f to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, 25f 25f 25f ἕως χριστοῦ ἡγουμένου 25f until an anointed leader,
25g שָׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה 25g there shall be seven weeks. 25g 25g 25g ἑβδομάδες ἑπτὰ 25g there will be seven weeks
25h וְשָׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם 25h Then for sixty-two [weeks] 25h 25h 25h καὶ ἑβδομάδες ἑξήκοντα δύο 25h and sixty-two weeks,
25i תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙ 25i it shall be built again 25i 25i 25i καὶ ἐπιστρέψει καὶ οἰκοδομηθήσεται 25i and it will return, and will be built
25j רְח֣וֹב 25j with squares 25j 25j 25j πλατεῖα 25j streets
25k וְחָר֔וּץ 25k and moat, 25k 25k 25k καὶ τεῖχος 25k and a wall [...],
25l וּבְצ֖וֹק הָעִתִּֽים׃ 25l but in a troubled time. 25l 25l 25l καὶ ἐκκενωθήσονται οἱ καιροί. 25l and the seasons will be emptied out.
‎26a ‏וְאַחֲרֵ֤י הַשָּׁבֻעִים֙ שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם 26a And after the sixty-two weeks, 26a καὶ μετὰ ἑπτὰ καὶ ἑβδομήκοντα καὶ ἑξήκοντα δύο 26a And after seven and seventy and sixty-two weeks, 26a καὶ μετὰ τὰς ἑβδομάδας τὰς ἑξήκοντα δύο 26a And after the sixty-two weeks,
26b יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ 26b an anointed one shall be cut off, 26b ἀποσταθήσεται χρῖσμα 26b an anointing will be removed 26b ἐξολεθρευθήσεται χρῖσμα 26b an anointing will be destroyed,
26c וְאֵ֣ין ל֑וֹ 26c and shall have nothing; 26c καὶ οὐκ ἔσται 26c and will not be. 26c καὶ κρίμα οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν αὐτῷ 26c and there is no judgment in it.
26d 26d 26d καὶ βασιλεία ἐθνῶν 26d And a king of nations 26d 26d
26e וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית 26e and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. 26e φθερεῖ τὴν πόλιν καὶ τὸ ἅγιον 26e will demolish the city and the sanctuary 26e καὶ τὴν πόλιν καὶ τὸ ἅγιον διαφθερεῖ 26e And the city and the sanctuary it will destroy
26f עַ֣ם נָגִ֤יד הַבָּא֙ 26f the people of the prince who is to come 26f μετὰ τοῦ χριστοῦ 26f along with the anointed one, 26f σὺν τῷ ἡγουμένῳ τῷ ἐρχομένῳ 26f along with the leader who is to come.
26g וְקִצּ֣וֹ בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף 26g Its end shall come with a flood, 26g καὶ ἥξει ἡ συντέλεια αὐτοῦ μετ᾽ ὀργῆς 26g and his consummation will come with wrath 26g καὶ ἐκκοπήσονται ἐν κατακλυσμῷ 26g And they will be cut off by a flood,
26h וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶחֱרֶ֖צֶת 26h and to the end there shall be war; 26h καὶ ἕως καιροῦ συντελείας 26h even until the time of consummation. 26h καὶ ἕως τέλους πολέμου 26h to the finish of war
26i שֹׁמֵמֽוֹת׃ 26i desolations [are decreed]. 26i ἀπὸ πολέμου πολεμηθήσεται. 26i He will be attacked through war. 26i συντετμημένου τάξει ἀφανισμοῖς. 26i there will be annihilations.
‎27a ‏וְהִגְבִּ֥יר בְּרִ֛ית לָרַבִּ֖ים 27a And he shall make a strong covenant with many 27a καὶ δυναστεύσει ἡ διαθήκη εἰς πολλούς 27a And the covenant will prevail for many, 27a καὶ δυναμώσει διαθήκην πολλοῖς 27a And it will strengthen a covenant with many,
27b שָׁב֣וּעַ אֶחָ֑ד 27b for one week 27b 27b 27b ἑβδομὰς μία 27b one week,
27c 27c 27c καὶ πάλιν ἐπιστρέψει καὶ ἀνοικοδομηθήσεται εἰς πλάτος καὶ μῆκος 27c and it will return again and be rebuilt broad and long. 27c 27c
27d 27d 27d καὶ κατὰ συντέλειαν καιρῶν 27d And at the consummation of times 27d 27d
27e 27e 27e καὶ μετὰ ἑπτὰ καὶ ἑβδομήκοντα καιροὺς καὶ ἑξήκοντα δύο ἔτη 27e even after seven years and seventy times and sixty-two times 27e 27e
27f 27f 27f ἕως καιροῦ συντελείας πολέμου 27f until the time of the consummation of the war 27f 27f
27g 27g 27g καὶ ἀφαιρεθήσεται ἡ ἐρήμωσις ἐν τῷ κατισχῦσαι τὴν διαθήκην ἐπὶ πολλὰς ἑβδομάδας 27g even desolation will be removed when the covenant prevails for many weeks. 27g 27g
27h וַחֲצִ֨י הַשָּׁב֜וּעַ 27h and for half of the week 27h καὶ ἐν τῷ τέλει τῆς ἑβδομάδος 27h And in half of the week 27h καὶ ἐν τῷ ἡμίσει τῆς ἑβδομάδος 27h and by half of the week
27i יַשְׁבִּ֣ית׀ זֶ֣בַח וּמִנְחָ֗ה 27i he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; 27i ἀρθήσεται ἡ θυσία καὶ ἡ σπονδή 27i the sacrifice and the libation will cease, 27i ἀρθήσεταί μου θυσία καὶ σπονδή 27i sacrifice and libation will cease,
27j וְעַ֨ל כְּנַ֤ף שִׁקּוּצִים֙ מְשֹׁמֵ֔ם 27j and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, 27j καὶ ἐπὶ τὸ ἱερὸν βδέλυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων ἔσται 27j and in the temple there will be an abomination of desolations 27j καὶ ἐπὶ τὸ ἱερὸν βδέλυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων 27j and in the temple there will be an abomination of desolations
27k וְעַד־כָּלָה֙ וְנֶ֣חֱרָצָ֔ה 27k until the decreed end 27k ἕως συντελείας 27k until the consummation of a season, 27k καὶ ἕως συντελείας καιροῦ 27k even until a consummation,
27l תִּתַּ֖ךְ עַל־שֹׁמֵֽם׃ 27l is poured out on the desolator." 27l καὶ συντέλεια δοθήσεται ἐπὶ τὴν ἐρήμωσιν. 27l and a consummation will be given for the desolation." 27l συντέλεια δοθήσεται ἐπὶ τὴν ἐρήμωσιν. 27l and a consummation will be given for the desolation."

This table is based on the Hebrew, the Old Greek (lxx) and Theodotion's translation into Greek, and the English translations of those sources (RSV < Hebrew Text, and the NET translations of OG and Theodotion's Greek translations). In a few cases I have altered the wording of the RSV & the NET translations to be as literal as I could to the original clauses. Yes, doing so has made it quite difficult to digest, but if we don't do so, I fear that we are just making wild guesses. Also, it will make it far easier to follow treatments of the subject by Church fathers, Roman Catholic & Reformation figures, and modern buffs (I used to be one).

The OG translation certainly took liberties with the order of clauses when compared to the Hebrew. The OG seems to have rearranged the order of clauses with a purpose. Some of the clauses so moved are rendered "loosey-goosey" (different than what the Hebrew was saying). My understanding is that the OG translator's style was "natural" and easy to read. We were lucky that the OG translation of Daniel was preserved whole in one codice as well as a few fragments.

Theodotion's translation seems to correlate with the Hebrew order of clauses better than did the OG translator. The meanings of the words more or less overlap semantically. Again, my understanding is that Theodotion was a more literal translator, even to the point of making the resulting Greek harder to understand. Most bible codices preserved by Christians have Theodotion's translation instead of the OG.

Maybe the rearranged clauses in the OG translation are rough paraphrases, but it seems to me that the translator(s) have, in the process of paraphrasing, changed the original meaning significantly. I have not tried, yet, to see whether Theodotion had also done that, but through his word choices rather than paraphrases. Christian interpretation, at least until modern times, was more than likely based on one or more of the two Greek translations. Since the days of King James, when a translation of Daniel was based on the Hebrew, modern "prophecy groupies" have based their speculations on the Hebrew.

As a result of this, I'm kind of curious how useful this table (with corrections from our eagle-eyed resident experts) might be useful for comparing of what the Hebrew passage meant when written by the original author (say 164 BCE, looking at Antiochus Epiphanes as the desolator), as opposed to how the Greek translations (dating to 1st century BCE - 1st century CE) interpreted that Hebrew as saying (a span of as little as 100 years or so 164-64 BCE, but now in a context where a Roman could be the desolator).

There is also a chance that the Greek translations actually predate the final redaction of the Hebrew book of Daniel. So the meaning that seems odd in the OG may reflect a Hebrew text that was different than what had finally been transmitted by Jewish scribes.

Or is a more comprehensive picture possible? This redactional history could even relate to Josephus' claim that Vespasian/Titus were the powerful men who would destroy the temple and city after the temple was made 'foursquare'). See the various ways used to indicate the construction of roads in Jerusalem in a "square" pattern, which somehow Josephus interpreted to relate to the temple.

This could get messy!

DCH
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Re: The seventy weeks of Daniel 9.24-27.

Post by DCHindley » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:19 pm

Ben C. Smith wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:21 pm
I have some fairly good information on how Daniel's seventy weeks were interpreted by later Jewish and Christian exegetes. But I have read and reread the relevant verses since my childhood and I am still not sure what they themselves are trying to say from the authorial perspective of Daniel
Ben,

I responded with a table that summarizes the information in the texts you posted (RSV was under the Masoretic text, and two different NET English translations of the Old Greek and Theodotion Daniel). This is similar to what I did with the Ignatian corpus some while ago.

To be honest, it looks a bit more complicated than I once thought. If the Hebrew text was the source for the two Greek translations, then the alternate order of OG and the content of the clauses of Theodotion suggest that the translators either took liberties, or all (including the Masoretic text) used a common and somewhat different source lost to us, modifying it to get the finished products we know today.

I'm willing to pursue this with you, as this analysis seems to suggest a progression of thought from the time it was first published as we see it today (164 BCE or a bit later) to when it was translated into Greek (Mid 1st Century BCE or maybe 1st century CE, I've heard both). That progression indicated in the Greek translations might include wording changes to redirect meaning to refer to figures in the translator's own times. Maybe we'll find in them Pompey, maybe Vespasian/Titus, I don't know.

Let me know if you detect any errors.

DCH

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Re: The seventy weeks of Daniel 9.24-27.

Post by Ben C. Smith » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:02 pm

DCHindley wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:19 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:21 pm
I have some fairly good information on how Daniel's seventy weeks were interpreted by later Jewish and Christian exegetes. But I have read and reread the relevant verses since my childhood and I am still not sure what they themselves are trying to say from the authorial perspective of Daniel
Ben,

I responded with a table that summarizes the information in the texts you posted (RSV was under the Masoretic text, and two different NET English translations of the Old Greek and Theodotion Daniel). This is similar to what I did with the Ignatian corpus some while ago.
I noticed that, and thank you very much! I cannot give it my full attention right this moment, since I am on the road for a bit, but I will take a closer look when I can. Cheers. :cheers:
To be honest, it looks a bit more complicated than I once thought. If the Hebrew text was the source for the two Greek translations, then the alternate order of OG and the content of the clauses of Theodotion suggest that the translators either took liberties, or all (including the Masoretic text) used a common and somewhat different source lost to us, modifying it to get the finished products we know today.
That is how it was appearing to me, as well. Very complicated interrelationships.
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Re: The seventy weeks of Daniel 9.24-27.

Post by Ben C. Smith » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:24 am

DCHindley wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:19 pm
I'm willing to pursue this with you, as this analysis seems to suggest a progression of thought from the time it was first published as we see it today (164 BCE or a bit later) to when it was translated into Greek (Mid 1st Century BCE or maybe 1st century CE, I've heard both). That progression indicated in the Greek translations might include wording changes to redirect meaning to refer to figures in the translator's own times. Maybe we'll find in them Pompey, maybe Vespasian/Titus, I don't know.
One huge difference between the versions is how the weeks are divided up:

Daniel 9.25-26a Masoretic: 25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26a And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing

Daniel 9.25-26a LXX: 25 And you shall understand and will rejoice and will discover ordinances to respond, and you will build Ierousalem as a city for the Lord. 26a And after seven and seventy and sixty-two weeks, an anointing will be removed and will not be.

Daniel 9.25-26a Theodotion: 25 And you shall know and shall understand: from the going forth of the word to respond to and to rebuild Ierousalem until an anointed leader, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks, and it will return, and streets and a wall will be built, and the seasons will be emptied out. 26a And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointing will be destroyed, and there is no judgment in it.

The Masoretic has seven weeks, then an anointed prince, then sixty-two more weeks, and finally an(other) anointed one. I am given to understand that the first anointed, the prince, is often interpreted either as Zerubbabel or as the high priest Joshua, and that the second anointed, not called a prince, is often interpreted as Onias III.

Both the LXX and Theodotion seem to lump the seven and the sixty-two weeks together, with the LXX even throwing in an extra seventy weeks (how??) for good measure. The Masoretic makes more sense on this score, for why divide 69 weeks up into two segments if the two segments mean nothing? Perhaps neither the LXX nor Theodotion knew or cared about Onias III? They seem to have punctuated the Hebrew clauses differently than the Masoretes did.
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Re: The seventy weeks of Daniel 9.24-27.

Post by DCHindley » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:33 pm

Ben C. Smith wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:24 am
The Masoretic has seven weeks, then an anointed prince, then sixty-two more weeks, and finally an(other) anointed one. I am given to understand that the first anointed, the prince, is often interpreted either as Zerubbabel or as the high priest Joshua, and that the second anointed, not called a prince, is often interpreted as Onias III.

Both the LXX and Theodotion seem to lump the seven and the sixty-two weeks together, with the LXX even throwing in an extra seventy weeks (how??) for good measure.

The Masoretic makes more sense on this score, for why divide 69 weeks up into two segments if the two segments mean nothing?

Perhaps neither the LXX nor Theodotion knew or cared about Onias III? They seem to have punctuated the Hebrew clauses differently than the Masoretes did.
Unless, the translators treated the periods 70 weeks, 62 weeks and 7 weeks as separate 'times,' and did not need to be added together. I think we all tend to be "addition crazy" when it comes to this pericope. We should look at it synchronistically (as individual units in time) rather than diachronically (occurring sequentially over a period of time). Oh God, I'm getting too deep ... !

I'm in the process of whipping up a color coded version of the table to try and keep track of all the various entities mentioned.

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Re: The seventy weeks of Daniel 9.24-27.

Post by DCHindley » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:10 pm

Well, this isn't color coded but it includes more internal divisions within verses so that OG verse 27 can be compared with with Theodotion 9:25,27. Be aware that I resegmented some verses from the divisions I used before. These are better ... muuuuch better.
Masoretic (Hebrew)
RSV (English translation)
Old Greek (translation of Hebrew)
NETS (English translation of OG translation)
Theodotion's (greek translation of Hebrew)
NETS (English translation of Theodotion's Greek translation)
24a ‏שָׁבֻעִ֨ים שִׁבְעִ֜ים נֶחְתַּ֥ךְ 24a "Seventy weeks of years are decreed 24 Ἑβδομήκοντα ἑβδομάδες ἐκρίθησαν 24a "Seventy weeks have been decided 24a Ἑβδομήκοντα ἑβδομάδες συνετμήθησαν 24a "Seventy weeks have been cut short
24b עַֽל־עַמְּךָ֣׀ 24b concerning your people 24b ἐπὶ τὸν λαόν σου 24b for your people 24b ἐπὶ τὸν λαόν σου 24b for your people
24c וְעַל־עִ֣יר קָדְשֶׁ֗ךָ 24c and your holy city, 24c καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν πόλιν Σιων 24c and for the city, Sion: 24c καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν πόλιν τὴν ἁγίαν σου 24c and for the holy city:
24d לְכַלֵּ֨א הַפֶּ֜שַׁע 24d to finish the transgression, 24d συντελεσθῆναι τὴν ἁμαρτίαν 24d for sin to be consummated 24d τοῦ συντελεσθῆναι ἁμαρτίαν 24d for sin to be consummated
24e ולחתם וּלְהָתֵ֤ם חטאות חַטָּאת֙ 24e to put an end to sin, 24e καὶ τὰς ἀδικίας σπανίσαι 24e and to make iniquities scarce 24e καὶ τοῦ σφραγίσαι ἁμαρτίας 24e and to seal sins
24f וּלְכַפֵּ֣ר עָוֹ֔ן 24f and to atone for iniquity, 24f καὶ ἀπαλεῖψαι τὰς ἀδικίας 24f and to blot out iniquities 24f καὶ ἀπαλεῖψαι τὰς ἀνομίας καὶ τοῦ ἐξιλάσασθαι ἀδικίας 24f and to atone for iniquities and expunge the lawlessness
24g 24g 24g καὶ διανοηθῆναι τὸ ὅραμα 24g and to comprehend the vision 24g 24g
24h וּלְהָבִ֖יא צֶ֣דֶק עֹֽלָמִ֑ים 24h to bring in everlasting righteousness, 24h καὶ δοθῆναι δικαιοσύνην αἰώνιον 24h and for everlasting righteousness to be given 24h καὶ τοῦ ἀγαγεῖν δικαιοσύνην αἰώνιον 24h and to bring everlasting righteousness
24i וְלַחְתֹּם֙ חָז֣וֹן 24i to seal both vision 24i καὶ συντελεσθῆναι τὸ ὅραμα 24i and for the vision to be consummated 24i καὶ τοῦ σφραγίσαι ὅρασιν 24i and to seal vision
24j וְנָבִ֔יא 24j and prophet, 24j 24j 24j καὶ προφήτην 24j and prophet
24k וְלִמְשֹׁ֖חַ קֹ֥דֶשׁ קָֽדָשִֽׁים׃ 24k and to anoint a most holy place. 24k καὶ εὐφρᾶναι ἅγιον ἁγίων. 24k and to gladden a holy of holies. 24k καὶ τοῦ χρῖσαι ἅγιον ἁγίων. 24k and to anoint a holy of holies.
‎25a ‏וְתֵדַ֨ע וְתַשְׂכֵּ֜ל 25a Know therefore and understand 25a καὶ γνώσῃ καὶ διανοηθήσῃ 25a And you shall know and understand 25a καὶ γνώσῃ καὶ συνήσεις 25a And you shall know and shall understand:
25b 25b 25b καὶ εὐφρανθήσῃ 25b and will rejoice 25b 25b
25c מִן־מֹצָ֣א דָבָ֗ר 25c that from the going forth of the word 25c καὶ εὑρήσεις προστάγματα ἀποκριθῆναι 25c and will discover ordinances to respond, 25c ἀπὸ ἐξόδου λόγου τοῦ ἀποκριθῆναι 25c from the going forth of the word to respond to
25d לְהָשִׁיב֙ וְלִבְנ֤וֹת יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֙ם֙ 25d to restore and build Jerusalem 25d καὶ οἰκοδομήσεις Ιερουσαλημ 25d and you will build Ierousalem 25d καὶ τοῦ οἰκοδομῆσαι Ιερουσαλημ 25d and to rebuild Ierousalem
25e 25e 25e πόλιν κυρίῳ. 25e as a city for (the) Lord. 25e 25e
25f עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד 25f to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, 25f [see 26g below] 25f [see 26g below] 25f ἕως χριστοῦ ἡγουμένου 25f until an anointed leader,
25g שָׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה 25g there shall be seven weeks. 25g 25g 25g ἑβδομάδες ἑπτὰ 25g [there will be] seven weeks
25h וְשָׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם 25h Then for sixty-two [weeks] 25h 25h 25h καὶ ἑβδομάδες ἑξήκοντα δύο 25h and sixty-two weeks,
25i תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙ 25i it shall be built again 25i 25i 25i καὶ ἐπιστρέψει καὶ οἰκοδομηθήσεται 25i and it will return, and will be built
25j רְח֣וֹב 25j with squares 25j 25j 25j πλατεῖα 25j streets
25k וְחָר֔וּץ 25k and moat, 25k 25k 25k καὶ τεῖχος 25k and a wall [...],
25l וּבְצ֖וֹק הָעִתִּֽים׃ 25l but in a troubled time. 25l 25l 25l καὶ ἐκκενωθήσονται οἱ καιροί. 25l and the seasons will be emptied out.
‎26a‏ וְאַחֲרֵ֤י 26a And after 26a καὶ μετὰ 26a And after 26a καὶ μετὰ 26a And after
26b הַשָּׁבֻעִים֙ 26b the weeks 26b ἑπτὰ 26b seven 26b τὰς ἑβδομάδας 26b the weeks
26c 26c 26c καὶ ἑβδομήκοντα 26c and seventy 26c 26c
‎26d שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם 26d sixty and two , 26d καὶ ἑξήκοντα δύο 26d and sixty-two, 26d τὰς ἑξήκοντα δύο 26d the sixty-two,
26e יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ 26e an anointed one shall be cut off, 26e ἀποσταθήσεται χρῖσμα 26e an anointing will be removed 26e ἐξολεθρευθήσεται χρῖσμα 26e an anointing will be destroyed,
26f וְאֵ֣ין ל֑וֹ 26f and [it] shall have nothing; 26f καὶ οὐκ ἔσται 26f and [it] will not be. 26f καὶ κρίμα οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν αὐτῷ 26f and there is no judgment in it.
26g 26g 26g καὶ βασιλεία ἐθνῶν 26g And a king of nations 26g 26g
26h וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית 26h and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. 26h φθερεῖ τὴν πόλιν καὶ τὸ ἅγιον 26h [he] will demolish the city and the sanctuary 26h καὶ τὴν πόλιν καὶ τὸ ἅγιον διαφθερεῖ 26h And the city and the sanctuary it will destroy
26i עַ֣ם נָגִ֤יד הַבָּא֙ 26i the people of the prince who is to come 26i μετὰ τοῦ χριστοῦ 26i along with the anointed one, 26i σὺν τῷ ἡγουμένῳ τῷ ἐρχομένῳ 26i along with the leader who is to come.
26j וְקִצּ֣וֹ בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף 26j Its end shall come with a flood, 26j καὶ ἥξει ἡ συντέλεια αὐτοῦ μετ᾽ ὀργῆς 26j and his consummation will come with wrath 26j καὶ ἐκκοπήσονται ἐν κατακλυσμῷ 26j And they will be cut off by a flood,
26k וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶחֱרֶ֖צֶת 26k and to the end there shall be war; 26k καὶ ἕως καιροῦ συντελείας 26k even until the time of consummation. 26k καὶ ἕως τέλους πολέμου 26k to the finish of war
26l שֹׁמֵמֽוֹת׃ 26l desolations [are decreed]. 26l ἀπὸ πολέμου πολεμηθήσεται. 26l He will be attacked through war. 26l συντετμημένου τάξει ἀφανισμοῖς. 26l there will be annihilations.
‎27a ‏וְהִגְבִּ֥יר בְּרִ֛ית לָרַבִּ֖ים 27a And he shall make a strong covenant with many 27a καὶ δυναστεύσει ἡ διαθήκη εἰς πολλούς 27a And the covenant will prevail for many, 27a καὶ δυναμώσει διαθήκην πολλοῖς 27a And it will strengthen a covenant with many,
27b שָׁב֣וּעַ אֶחָ֑ד 27b for one week 27b 27b 27b ἑβδομὰς μία 27b one week,
27c 27c 27c καὶ πάλιν ἐπιστρέψει καὶ ἀνοικοδομηθήσεται 27c and it [i.e., the city] will return again and be rebuilt 27c 27c
27d 27d 27d εἰς πλάτος 27d with great breadth 27d 27d
27e 27e 27e καὶ μῆκος 27e and height. 27e 27e
27f 27f 27f καὶ κατὰ συντέλειαν καιρῶν 27f And at the consummation of times 27f 27f
27g 27g 27g καὶ μετὰ ἑπτὰ 27g even after seven 27g 27g
27h 27h 27h καὶ ἑβδομήκοντα καιροὺς 27h and seventy times 27h 27h
27i 27i 27i καὶ ἑξήκοντα δύο ἔτη 27i and sixty-two years 27i 27i
27j 27j 27j ἕως καιροῦ συντελείας πολέμου 27j until the time of the consummation of the war 27j 27j
27k 27k 27k καὶ ἀφαιρεθήσεται ἡ ἐρήμωσις ἐν τῷ κατισχῦσαι τὴν διαθήκην ἐπὶ πολλὰς ἑβδομάδας 27k even desolation will be removed when the covenant prevails for many weeks. 27k 27k
27h וַחֲצִ֨י הַשָּׁב֜וּעַ 27l and for half of the week 27l καὶ ἐν τῷ τέλει τῆς ἑβδομάδος 27l And in half of the week 27l καὶ ἐν τῷ ἡμίσει τῆς ἑβδομάδος 27h and by half of the week
27i יַשְׁבִּ֣ית׀ זֶ֣בַח וּמִנְחָ֗ה 27m he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; 27m ἀρθήσεται ἡ θυσία καὶ ἡ σπονδή 27m the sacrifice and the libation will cease, 27m ἀρθήσεταί μου θυσία καὶ σπονδή 27m sacrifice and libation will cease,
27j וְעַ֨ל כְּנַ֤ף שִׁקּוּצִים֙ מְשֹׁמֵ֔ם 27n and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, 27n καὶ ἐπὶ τὸ ἱερὸν βδέλυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων ἔσται 27n and in the temple an abomination of desolations there will be 27n καὶ ἐπὶ τὸ ἱερὸν βδέλυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων 27n and in the temple an abomination of desolations [there will be]
27k וְעַד־כָּלָה֙ וְנֶ֣חֱרָצָ֔ה 27o until the decreed end 27o ἕως συντελείας 27o until the consummation [...], 27o καὶ ἕως συντελείας καιροῦ 27o even until a consummation of a season,
27l תִּתַּ֖ךְ עַל־שֹׁמֵֽם׃ 27p is poured out on the desolator." 27p καὶ συντέλεια δοθήσεται ἐπὶ τὴν ἐρήμωσιν. 27p and a consummation will be given for the desolation." 27p συντέλεια δοθήσεται ἐπὶ τὴν ἐρήμωσιν. 27p and a consummation will be given for the desolation."

The overlay part goes as follows:

MT
RSV
OG
NETS OG
Theodotion
NETS Theodotion
25f עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד 25f to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, 27f καὶ κατὰ συντέλειαν καιρῶν 27f And at the consummation of times 25f ἕως χριστοῦ ἡγουμένου 25f until an anointed leader,
25g שָׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה 25g there shall be seven weeks. 27g καὶ μετὰ ἑπτὰ 27g even after seven 25g ἑβδομάδες ἑπτὰ 25g [there will be] seven weeks
27h καὶ ἑβδομήκοντα καιροὺς 27h and seventy times
25h וְשָׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם 25h Then for sixty-two [weeks] 27i καὶ ἑξήκοντα δύο ἔτη 27i and sixty-two years 25h καὶ ἑβδομάδες ἑξήκοντα δύο 25h and sixty-two weeks,
25i תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙ 25i it shall be built again 27c καὶ πάλιν ἐπιστρέψει καὶ ἀνοικοδομηθήσεται 27c and it [i.e., the city] will return again and be rebuilt 25i καὶ ἐπιστρέψει καὶ οἰκοδομηθήσεται 25i and it will return, and will be built
25j רְח֣וֹב 25j with squares 27d εἰς πλάτος 27d with great breadth 25j πλατεῖα 25j streets
25k וְחָר֔וּץ 25k and moat, 27e καὶ μῆκος 27e and height. 25k καὶ τεῖχος 25k and a wall [...],
25l וּבְצ֖וֹק הָעִתִּֽים׃ 25l but in a troubled time. 27j ἕως καιροῦ συντελείας πολέμου 27j until the time of the consummation of the war 25l καὶ ἐκκενωθήσονται οἱ καιροί. 25l and the seasons will be emptied out.
27k καὶ ἀφαιρεθήσεται ἡ ἐρήμωσις ἐν τῷ κατισχῦσαι τὴν διαθήκην ἐπὶ πολλὰς ἑβδομάδας 27k even desolation will be removed when the covenant prevails for many weeks.

DCH
Last edited by DCHindley on Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: The seventy weeks of Daniel 9.24-27.

Post by Ben C. Smith » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:45 pm

Such complexity.
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DCHindley
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Re: The seventy weeks of Daniel 9.24-27.

Post by DCHindley » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:09 pm

Ben C. Smith wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:45 pm
Such complexity.
I did notice that where the Hebrew and Theodotion's Greek translation speak of an anointed one, a prince/governor, the Old Greek translation speaks of "a king of nations" in a similar context.
"26h [he] will demolish the city and the sanctuary, 26i along with the anointed one, 26j and his consummation will come with wrath 26k even until the time of consummation. 26l He will be attacked through war.

27a And the covenant will prevail for many, 27b [] 27c and it [i.e., the city] will return again and be rebuilt 27d with great breadth 27e and height.

27f And at the consummation of times 27g even after seven 27h and seventy times 27i and sixty-two years 27j until the time of the consummation of the war 27k even desolation will be removed when the covenant prevails for many weeks.


I think that sounds like a prediction that this king of nations would through his actions, which include destroying the city and the sanctuary, usher in a covenant that would prevail "many weeks," a covenant in which the city and sanctuary would be rebuilt. The anointed one who gets demolished along with the sanctuary could be seen as Simon bar Giora, but I will not push that idea too far.

There is odd language in 27g, 27h & 27i. There are no "weeks," but only "times" (καιροὺς) and "years" (ἔτη). This is where you find your Seventy years added upon the 62 and seven years.

The "Old Greek" text was the one initially preserved by the early Christians, as at first they believed that the city & temple were destroyed because God was displeased by Judeans. Yet as soon as they began to speculate that the Daniel passage had to do with Jesus, not Vespasian, Theodotion's translation of Daniel quickly replaced the OG.

But identifying that the OG might be outright propaganda, the question might be asked: Whose POV does it represent? Roman? Judean Aristocracy? Josephan? Judean Rebels? Or just everyday Judeans trying to get their heads around the thing that happened: an unexpected defeat at the hands of the Romans. If God didn't intervene, he may well have intended to teach his people Israel a lesson, as Josephus contends.

DCH

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