Was OT originally in Greek?

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
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Ethan
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Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by Ethan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:49 am

I used to hold the Masoretic in high regards , but throughout study, side by side with the Septuagint, I believe it to be corrupted by Scribes, In terms of dates, the Septuagint is older then the Masoretic (10th century CE), so why do Bibles use this as a primary source.

One example of corruption is the word ' Philistine ' and how they are portrayed in Samuel, If you read the Septuagint version of Samuel,
they are no Philistines, but the word ' ἀλλόφυλοι ' (foreigners), how Samuel describes them, is Scythian not Phoenician, Palestine however is not ἀλλόφυλοι but from πελασ-γοί ( Pelas-Goi ) 'of the coast land' . (geographical )

Beit She'an ( House of Zeus) appear in 1 Samuel 31:10 ' Foreigners fastened his body(Saul) to the wall of Bethshan ' , for during Hellenistic times Bethshan was renamed 'Scythopolis ( Scythian = ἀλλόφυλοι ), thus 1 Samuel are documenting conflicts during that time period.

The Books of Samuel in the Masoretic are sourced from an original Greek document, thus left-over Greek can still be found, for example
the name 'Ish-Bosheth' , but also called 'Ish-Baal' , the difference, is because 'Baal' (בַּעַל) means Husband, thus translates as ' πόσις' ( *pótis) which transliterates into 'Bosheth' (בּשֶׁת) . Bosheth ( πόσις) originally Ishui ( ἠιθέῳ) ( 1 Samuel 14:49), note that his brothers are also Greek derived , Malchishua (Μολοσσός σέβος) and Jonathan ( διόν δότον ) ' Zeus as given'.
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Ethan
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by Ethan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:09 am

Book of Genesis, in it's Hebrew form was clearly translated from Greek which explains left-over words, for example 'Paddan Aram' (πεδίον ἁρμός ) and Paran (περᾶν).

What is also Greek derived are location nouns that end with ' ὧν ' (וֹן) , Hebron, Lebanon, Aaron, Pison, Gihon, Ephron, Ekron, Gibeon, Sidon, Shomron, Solomon, Babylon, Zion and Zebulon.
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Ethan
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by Ethan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:05 am

Translating between Hebrew and Greek as created allot of contextual problems.

- Genesis 19:24 - LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire
This aught to read ' The Lord rained upon Sodom & Gomorrah, Hoar-frost and snow , in other words a Snowstorm
destroyed the Vineyards .

Job 38:29 ' the hoary frost of heaven '.
Ezekiel 38:22 'rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
Psalms 148:8 ' Fire, and hail; snow

The Hebrew ( 'Esh ) is figurative word for 'burning' ( Hot) but also an antonym for burning ( Cold) and thus 'Esh is related to the
word 'Ice , hence why Fire seems to accompany Snow and Hail.

Brimstone in Hb is גָּפְרִית (Gfor) a form of כְּפוֹר (Kfor) ' hoar-frost' , כְּפוֹר (Kfor) also a dialectic form of קֶרַח (Qerech) in Greek is κρύος ( Kruos) ( Krfos) , cognate with Crystal, Frost, Freeze and Frozen.

Exo 9:23
LORD rained hail upon the land of Egypt ( Bekaa Valley, Lebanon)
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Lebano ... alley.ashx

.
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semiopen
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by semiopen » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:11 am

This assertion was an important opinion of professor mouse, who was an anti-semite banned from this forum.

Other than being a little silly, this is not as crazy as some of the other shit that he said.

Ethan
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by Ethan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:56 am

Your confusing me with someone else and you response is an ad hominem , I consider myself an etymologist and problem solver, that's why i am interesting in the Bible, it's like a big puzzle book.

Semite, or 'Shem [Σημ ] that i derive from Σημεῖον (Banner / Marker / Standard)

Isaiah 13:2 - Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain
Jeremiah 4:6 - Set up the standard toward Zion

Isa 13:2 reads 'Mount Shaphah' ( Ugaritic name of Mount Hermon ) .

σημεῖον [Shemion] = שְׁמַיִן [Shamayin] > שָׁמַיִם [Shamayim]

Genesis 1:1 - 'Summit of Elohim' ( of a Mountain ) ... σημεῖον(Shamayim) ἔραζ ( Eretz)
Ezekiel 28:14 ' Mount Elohim' ( Mount Hermon) also called Zion.
Deuteronomy 4:48 - Mount Sion, which is Hermon

חֶרְמוֹן appears in the Torah, in Deuteronomy 4:48, derive from Ἑρμῆς ( boundary marker) , similar definition of Σημεῖον [Shmeion] 'שָׁמַיִם'
and that is why Shamayim means Sky in Hebrew , for that is what they saw.

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semiopen
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by semiopen » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:10 am

I was only illustrating how ridiculous this question is by mentioning it's previous proponent here.

The simple answer is no.

Ethan
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by Ethan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:14 am

semiopen wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:10 am
I was only illustrating how ridiculous this question is by mentioning it's previous proponent here.

The simple answer is no.
it is a very difficult question that requires balanced knowledge of both Hebrew and Greek, If you studied Hebrew all your life, It's all you know and thus little reason to study Greek. Hebrew is Phoenician written in Imperial Aramaic script, but the language is still Phoenician , it's script , A B C D is used by both Latin and Greek. This language-script is found in Carthage and Ancient Italy .

The Language was primarily used by Merchants, it was written on stone tablets and brought on the ships, this is why the words are stripped down and lack vowels, this is true in Egypt, which had two languages, Hieroglyphs and Hieratic, one language written on stone, the other on Papyrus, more room thus more complex words, however , Greek words are quite long, thus inefficient for the Merchants, Vowel stripping can be seen in Latin too , for example IVLIVS ( Julius ), when this is written on stone or a coin, they compress it down IVLIVS > IVLIV > IVLI > IVL and using this solid logic, brings Greek and Hebrew closer together .

In Ancient Greek , House is Ϝοἶκος [ Voikos]
Voikos > Voik > Vik > Bit [ בַּיִת ]

Why is the number Seven so similar between Latin, Hebrew and Greek.
Septa ( Latin) Sheba ( Hebrew) Hepta ( Greek)

The Hebrew three is Shalash [SLS] , in Aramaic it is Talath [ TLT]
L/R and S/T commonly interchange, the Greek is Tries [ TRS]
SLS - TLT - TRS

I being doing this for hundreds of Hebrew words, pretty much throwing the Hebrew Lexicon out the window.
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Ethan
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by Ethan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:41 am

I am also an opponent of PIE [Proto-Indo-European] , Every time i look up PIE Etymology of any words, no mention of Hebrew , Why is Hebrew not classified as a PIE language, the language was used in Europe, the oldest city in Europe is Cádiz (South west spain) founded by the Phoenicians, PIE can be thrown out too, so i classified Latin, Hebrew and Greek my own way, ' Mediterranean Languages' and based on a common trading language.

Image

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... estry.html
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semiopen
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by semiopen » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:45 am

It's not difficult. It was written in Hebrew, case closed.

Regarding your linguistics lessons, they are not convincing. The quantity of your dubious examples makes it difficult to research and reply to each one, and in the end what would be the point?

I looked at one of them -
similar definition of Σημεῖον [Shmeion] 'שָׁמַיִם'
and that is why Shamayim means Sky in Hebrew , for that is what they saw.
Heaven_in_Judaism

[wiki]The Hebrew word shamayim is constructed of two parts: sham (שָׁמַ) derived from Akkadian samu meaning "sky" or "lofty", and Hebrew mayim (מַיִם) meaning "water". In Genesis 1:6 Elohim separated the "water from the water". The area above the earth was filled by sky-water (sham-mayim) and the earth below was covered by sea-water (yam-mayim). The Hebrew word for the sun is shemesh. It follows the same construction, where "shem" or "sham" (Akkadian: samu) means "sky" and esh (Akkadian: ish) means "fire", i.e. "sky-fire".[/wiki]

In other words, your statement is sort of batshit crazy. I'd look at some others but then there is Einstein's definition of insanity - I don't really think I'd find any different results.

I also looked at some of the examples in your other threads, such as Isaiah. They are sometimes interesting, if questionable. However in this specific case, your premise is not only wrong, but somewhat offensive - not offensive to me, personally; but I thought it merited a reply. Nobody worth listening to believes that the original language was Greek.

Ethan
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by Ethan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:15 am

I consider Isaiah , Ezekiel and Songs of Solomon to be the most original books in the Tanakh and can be used to decipher Genesis. Genesis 1:6 as some strange language that mentions 'Upper Waters, Lower Waters, under the firmament and above the firmament ' and this cryptic language can be found in one other book, Ezekiel.

Ezekiel 1:23 - under the firmament
Ezekiel 1:26 - above the firmament

Ezekiel describes something mechanical with wheels and this is also described in 1 Kings 7.

1 Kings 7:32 - under the borders were four wheels;

Genesis 1:6 is describing this mechanical device which control the conduits.

2 Kings 18:17 - stood by the conduit of the upper pool
2 Kings 20:20 - Hezekiah, and all his might, and how he made a pool, and a conduit, and brought water into the city
Isaiah 41:17 - , I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys
I will make the wilderness a pool of water

2Ch 32:30 - This same Hezekiah also stopped the upper watercourse of Gihon ( River of Eden)

How did he 'stop' the upper-watercourse? with the mechanical structure described in Ezekiel and i believe this structure is also described as a winged-Hippocampus(Pegasus) , Pegasus derives from אָפִיק 'stream of water' , cognate off πηγάζω (Pegazo) .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocampus_(mythology)
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/mor ... ω&la=greek
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... rongs=H650
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