Genesis 1

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
Ethan
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Genesis 1

Post by Ethan » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:20 pm

The most well known verse of the Bible is the first, the usual translation is " In the beginning God created the Heaven and Earth" , but anyone who can read Hebrew knows it's wrong and over simplistic.

God is ' ALEIM '

This could be ALE [Definite article] and IM [West].

The first word "In the Beginning" , the root word is RAS [רֹאשׁ] " Top of a mountain " , ALEIM is also the name of a Mountain [ Eze 28:14 ] [Exo 3:1] in Eden [Lebanon], this is the source of the Eden's Rivers and how Gen 1 transitions into Gen 2.

Created is 'BRA' , the proper translation is 'Fattened / Filled' , the abstract notion 'created from notion' doesn't exist in Hebrew and the opposite
of this word is read in Gen 1:2 " Unfilled " . So the Earth was unfilled and needed to be filled, that's the premise.

Genesis 1:1 - The West [Wind] Fattened
Psalms 89:2 - North-West [Wind] fattened the Mountains ( Hermon ) .

The notion is that the Mountains are filled with Fat , or according to Psalms 97:5, with Wax "The hills melted like wax" but are alluding
too Snow.

Micah 1:4
The mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire as the waters that are poured down a steep place

Amos 5:8
the waters of the Sea [West] poureth them out upon the face of the earth

Genesis 2:6
But there went up a mist[Fire] from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground

Genesis 1:2
the West Wind moved upon the face of the waters.

Numbers 21:14
Through this as it is said in the scrolls of War of how the Chariot [Sun-God] broiled the snows

Most people that study Genesis seem to completely ignore the culture that wrote it and the geography they lived in.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf

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lpetrich
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Re: Genesis 1

Post by lpetrich » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:30 pm

Except that that is contrary to the conventional linguistic wisdom on that subject. From Genesis 1:1 (KJV) - In the beginning God created, gen1.pdf, and the sample page at The Hebrew English Phonetic Bible - the Entire Bible with the Hebrew written in phonetic English with accents!, I transcribe it

Be-reshit bara Elohim et ha-shamayim ve-et ha-aretz.
In beginning created gods the heavens and the earth.
H7225, H1254, H430, H853, H8064, H853, H776 (Strong's Concordance)
Biblical Hebrew usually had verb-subject-object order.

StephenGoranson
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Re: Genesis 1

Post by StephenGoranson » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:40 am

Comparing Greek and Hebrew words that seem similar to you, and using that as a basis of translation, appears unreliable.

Ethan
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Location: England

Re: Genesis 1

Post by Ethan » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:09 am

StephenGoranson wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:40 am
Comparing Greek and Hebrew words that seem similar to you, and using that as a basis of translation, appears unreliable.
I essentially write composite translations, based on the words in the Septuagint and Masoretic, Most of the Bible translations exaggerate or are too abstract, where-as Hebrew words tend to be more concrete.

The term ' Create ' is an abstract, it implies 'from nothing' , where as the Hebrew word Bara [בָּרָא ] ' Fatten ' is concrete , related too Beriy [בְּרִי] 'Fat'and interestingly , in Greek, Barus [βαρύς] means "Heavy in weight' , Jdg 3:17 - Eglon was a very fat [Beriy] man.

See how easy it is too compare Greek & Hebrew words.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf

StephenGoranson
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Re: Genesis 1

Post by StephenGoranson » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:11 am

"See how easy it is" to err?

Ethan
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Re: Genesis 1

Post by Ethan » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:17 am

StephenGoranson wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:11 am
"See how easy it is" to err?
Gen 28:12 - And he dreamed, and behold a ladder

The Hebrew word is סֻלָּם [ Cullum ] and if you read the Septuagint, it is κλίμαξ [ Klimax ] " Ladder/Stairway" and used 4 times in Homer, so
Hebrew definitions often depend on the Greek, but סֻלָּם [ Cullum ] is really a pun for חָלַם [chalam] " Dream" .

Gen 37:5 - I dreamed [chalam] a dream [chalowm] i.e I dreamed [chalam] a ladder [ Cullum ]

The root word for κλίμαξ [ Klimax] is κλίνῃ [Klinh] " A Bed ' or αὐλίζομαι [Aulizomai] " Lie in bed" , κατάλυμα [Kataluma] " lodging'
or לוּן [ Luwn] 'lodge in ' לַיִל [ Lil ] " night ' , מָלוֹן [ malown) " sleeping place" , κοιμάω [ Koimaw] " lull too sleep" . κοίτην [ Koithn] " bedstead'' .

It's all word play.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf

semiopen
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Re: Genesis 1

Post by semiopen » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:52 pm

Ethan wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:17 am
StephenGoranson wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:11 am
"See how easy it is" to err?
Gen 28:12 - And he dreamed, and behold a ladder

The Hebrew word is סֻלָּם [ Cullum ] and if you read the Septuagint, it is κλίμαξ [ Klimax ] " Ladder/Stairway" and used 4 times in Homer, so
Hebrew definitions often depend on the Greek, but סֻלָּם [ Cullum ] is really a pun for חָלַם [chalam] " Dream" .
Nice, how you nonsensically turned the situation around.

In this particular example, the word for ladder is sullam (s sound because the letter is samekh - Hebrew_Samekh.

Strong's - http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5551.htm
Word Origin
from salal
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5549.htm
Definition
to lift up, cast up
Maybe it's a pun on dream, but so what, that has nothing to do with this thread. In any case, the words in Greek and Hebrew are not obviously similar.

It is difficult to take a person who would make such a ghastly transliteration error seriously. You are posting incomprehensible and apparently nonsensical shit; everyone is entitled to their opinion but why start multiple idiotic threads?

Ethan
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Location: England

Re: Genesis 1

Post by Ethan » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:11 pm

semiopen wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:52 pm
In this particular example, the word for ladder is sullam (s sound because the letter is samekh - Hebrew_Samekh.
Not סָלַל but צָלַל [ Dark / Shadow ] and from this צֶאֱלִים [ Tsalim ] , צלל also means 'to descend / incline' , In Greek it's κλίνῃ ' that on which one lies ' i.e a bed or 'Fall' asleep' .

Job 40:21 ' He sleeps under the shady-tree ' ,

It is more then likely that Jacob was envisioning a Tree, or was sleeping under a tree, for the place was so-named Luz [ Tree ] , Also named Bethel also associated with a tree, or specifically, the Mulberry Tree . [בָּכָא] or Sycamore Tree [ שִׁקְמָה] or Moreh [מוֹרֶה] , note Sycamore is שִׁקְמָה מוֹרֶה .

Moreh μορέα.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/mor ... a&la=greek
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf

semiopen
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Re: Genesis 1

Post by semiopen » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:58 am

Ethan wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:11 pm
semiopen wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:52 pm
In this particular example, the word for ladder is sullam (s sound because the letter is samekh - Hebrew_Samekh.
Not סָלַל but צָלַל [ Dark / Shadow ] and from this צֶאֱלִים [ Tsalim ] , צלל also means 'to descend / incline' , In Greek it's κλίνῃ ' that on which one lies ' i.e a bed or 'Fall' asleep' .

Job 40:21 ' He sleeps under the shady-tree ' ,
צָלַל is an actual Hebrew word meaning dive, sink, settle (descend/incline as you give also seems reasonable). However it doesn't seem to appear anywhere in the bible.

The word you mean is probably ‎צֵל

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/6738.htm

This means shadow. One might think it could also mean darkness, but the fact that you support this interpretation makes me hesitate to agree.
He lies down beneath the lotuses, In the cover of the swamp reeds. (Job 40:21 TNK)
‎צֶאֱלִ֥ים is usually translated as Lotus. KJV and some other Christian translations give shady,

The only other place we see ‎צֶאֱלִ֥ים is
The lotuses embower him with shade; The willows of the brook surround him. (Job 40:22 TNK)
‎צֶאֱלִ֣ים צִֽלֲל֑וֹ

Seems to support the lotus interpretation to me. The aleph in ‎צֶאֱלִ֥ים makes it's direct association with ‎צֵל at least questionable. Interesting Job verses.

All this has nothing to do with the possible pun in Genesis 28:12 which in turn had nothing to do with Genesis 1.

Ethan
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Location: England

Re: Genesis 1

Post by Ethan » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:19 pm

semiopen wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:58 am
Ethan wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:11 pm
semiopen wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:52 pm
In this particular example, the word for ladder is sullam (s sound because the letter is samekh - Hebrew_Samekh.
Not סָלַל but צָלַל [ Dark / Shadow ] and from this צֶאֱלִים [ Tsalim ] , צלל also means 'to descend / incline' , In Greek it's κλίνῃ ' that on which one lies ' i.e a bed or 'Fall' asleep' .

Job 40:21 ' He sleeps under the shady-tree ' ,
צָלַל is an actual Hebrew word meaning dive, sink, settle (descend/incline as you give also seems reasonable). However it doesn't seem to appear anywhere in the bible.

The word you mean is probably ‎צֵל

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/6738.htm

This means shadow. One might think it could also mean darkness, but the fact that you support this interpretation makes me hesitate to agree.
He lies down beneath the lotuses, In the cover of the swamp reeds. (Job 40:21 TNK)
‎צֶאֱלִ֥ים is usually translated as Lotus. KJV and some other Christian translations give shady,

The only other place we see ‎צֶאֱלִ֥ים is
The lotuses embower him with shade; The willows of the brook surround him. (Job 40:22 TNK)
‎צֶאֱלִ֣ים צִֽלֲל֑וֹ

Seems to support the lotus interpretation to me. The aleph in ‎צֶאֱלִ֥ים makes it's direct association with ‎צֵל at least questionable. Interesting Job verses.

All this has nothing to do with the possible pun in Genesis 28:12 which in turn had nothing to do with Genesis 1.
There is one relative word in Genesis 1:27 , צֶלֶם [Tselem] .

Another word is צַלְמוֹן [Tsalmon] , this is a proper locative noun appearing in Psalms 68:14 "white as snow in Tsalmon" and
in Judges 9:48 " Mount Tsalmon " , in Greek this is Ερμων and thus Mount Hermon [Songs 4:8] . This is relative too Genesis, since Mount Hermon, is also Mount Elohim [הר אלהים ] [Ezekiel 28:16] since the verse first of Genesis begins with "In the summit of Elohim " .

I really need to visit that Mountain.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf

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