Adam's tree

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
iskander
Posts: 2088
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Adam's tree

Post by iskander » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:58 am


semiopen
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:27 pm

Re: Adam's tree

Post by semiopen » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:32 am

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:02 pm
My post is appropriate for the Jewish forum. It's none of your business where I post what. Let me make this blatantly clear for you: YOU ARE IN NO POSITION TO TELL ME WHERE MY POSTS BELONG. UNLESS YOU ARE A MOD OR THE SITE ADMIN, YOUR WORD MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING REGARDING SUCH ISSUES.

Now, unless you have something relevant to the topic you would like to bring up, such as Jewish texts in which Adam becomes a tree or is connected to the Tree of Life, kindly refrain from making further superfluous comments.
You probably made your original post out of stupidity and are now simply making your error more grotesque with your despicable use of the C word in this forum.

You are now proselytizing. Perhaps the moderators are taking a gnostic view of this.

I've already shown that there is no Jewish equivalent to this degenerate line of inquiry.

A Jewish response to my complaint would be to stop posting on this forum and simply start a new thread on the Yoshke forum, perhaps linking to this one. But, of course, why should you be sensitive to other peoples feelings.

iskander
Posts: 2088
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Adam's tree

Post by iskander » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:59 am

e: Where does Origen deny that Jesus is Carpenter?
Post by iskander » Sun May 21, 2017 7:39 am
...
The tree of life is a central religious invention in the Jewish religion, but it is of minimal importance in Christianity.
"The phrase “torat emet” is part of the Torah service during which we sing etz hayyim hee, “it is a tree of life.” Since we are holding the scroll at the time, it is evident that Torah is what is meant here "

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3189&p=70575&hilit=tree#p70575

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xKUdXDNKuw

semiopen
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:27 pm

Re: Adam's tree

Post by semiopen » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:45 am

iskander wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:59 am
e: Where does Origen deny that Jesus is Carpenter?
Post by iskander » Sun May 21, 2017 7:39 am
...
The tree of life is a central religious invention in the Jewish religion, but it is of minimal importance in Christianity.
"The phrase “torat emet” is part of the Torah service during which we sing etz hayyim hee, “it is a tree of life.” Since we are holding the scroll at the time, it is evident that Torah is what is meant here "

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3189&p=70575&hilit=tree#p70575

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xKUdXDNKuw
As I mentioned earlier, etz hayim (in the context of being a central Jewish religious invention - whatever that means) is medieval. It's probably more modern than the Star_of_David.

This is an interesting subject, but the degenerate xian views (a tree growing from Adam's phallus, etc) which open the discussion are not helpful.

iskander
Posts: 2088
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Adam's tree

Post by iskander » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:44 am

semiopen wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:45 am
iskander wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:59 am
e: Where does Origen deny that Jesus is Carpenter?
Post by iskander » Sun May 21, 2017 7:39 am
...
The tree of life is a central religious invention in the Jewish religion, but it is of minimal importance in Christianity.
"The phrase “torat emet” is part of the Torah service during which we sing etz hayyim hee, “it is a tree of life.” Since we are holding the scroll at the time, it is evident that Torah is what is meant here "

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3189&p=70575&hilit=tree#p70575

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xKUdXDNKuw
As I mentioned earlier, etz hayim (in the context of being a central Jewish religious invention - whatever that means) is medieval. It's probably more modern than the Star_of_David.

This is an interesting subject, but the degenerate xian views (a tree growing from Adam's phallus, etc) which open the discussion are not helpful.
It is a very unusual OP for the Jewish section in the Biblical Criticism & History Forum - Investigating the roots of western civilization (ye olde BC&H forum of IIDB lives on...), but these kind of OPs are often found in the Christian section of this forum.
The question the OP is asking the readers to answer is whether the representation of Adam as the giver of life with the collaboration of Eve ,could have originated in the Jewish culture --before or after the Star of David-- or whether this idea necessitates a gentile to be the originator. This question comes under the heading of investigating the roots of western civilisation .
tree of life.PNG
tree of life.PNG (192.53 KiB) Viewed 4692 times
The Tree of Life is of no importance in Christianity, but this Tree of Life is identified with Torah and it is therefore very important in Judaism-- holding fast to the Torah means life for the individual. Holding fast to Torah is as central to Jewish religious thought as the death of Christ in the cross is central to Christian religious thought.

Ethan
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Location: England

Re: Adam's tree

Post by Ethan » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:39 pm

Deuteronomy 20:19 is probably referring too the Mulberry Tree, the most sacred tree in the Levant.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
paypal.me/Napples

semiopen
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Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:27 pm

Re: Adam's tree

Post by semiopen » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 pm

I haven't lookied at your links carefully, but I don't see clear dates for when the phrase ‎עֵץ־חַיִּ֣ים gets extra biblical significance.

Probably it's important to look at the orthodox liturgy. When the Torah scroll is returned to the ark after a reading, the following phrase is recited (among others) -

עֵץ־חַיִּ֣ים הִ֭יא לַמַּחֲזִיקִ֣ים בָּ֑הּ וְֽתֹמְכֶ֥יהָ מְאֻשָּֽׁר׃
(Prov. 3:18 WTT)

She is a tree of life to those who grasp her, And whoever holds on to her is happy.
(Prov. 3:18 TNK)
I would have guessed that was part of the liturgy for a long time, but according to the wiki, not so much.

"She" is wisdom. There's no question that the first person who equated this with the Torah deserved that year's Nobel Prize for Rabbinic insight.

There is an article on academia.edu by Dr. Ingrid Faro discussing the phrase in the OT. She notes -
Rabbinic tradition has long recognized abidance in the Torah as the restorative promise of the tree of life (Schorsch, ÒTrees for Life,Ó 243Ð44; Schneersohn,The Tree of Life). Proverbs 3:18 provides support for this interpretation by portraying the Torah as embodying wisdom. This correspondence is reaffirmed by the quotation of Prov 3:18 after a public reading of the Torah. Likewise, the seven-branched, tree-shaped menorah is symbolic of the Torah as the tree of life, as well as the light-giving presence of God. In rabbinic expression, heresy and disobedience of the Torah are likened to the destruction of trees (Schorsch, ÒTrees for Life,Ó 244; Beale,
Revelation, 235). This sense of the sacredness of creation is meant to be a reflection of faith in the Creator: The way a person lives, in reverent honor of God and His creation, is to be a continual affirmation of life, with God as the ultimate source of all life.
I didn't notice any clarification for what "long" means, nor did I see any talmudic references.

Ethan
Posts: 616
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Location: England

Re: Adam's tree

Post by Ethan » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:54 pm

חיים is the epithet for Eve.

Gen 3:16 - Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow
and thy conception in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children

עצבונ , עצב
- ὀδύνη "Pain of Body"
- ἀνία (Ania) "Sorrow"
- אנה , תאנה
- עדן
- עצ "Tree"

The Fig-Tree, "תאנה " , feminine, also the word for Oestrous, or feminine pain of body
used in Isaiah 3:26, "Her gates shall Lament(אנה).

חכמ (Chakam) "Wisdom"
שקמ (Shaqam) "Mulberry Fruit"
σῦκον (Sykon) "Fruit of the Mulberry Tree"
שיח (Sych ) "Muse" ( ψύχω, μουσικός ))
הגה

Pro 23:29
אוי - οὐαί
אבוי -οϝαί
מדונים - ὀδύνη, ἀηδία
שיח - ψύχω
פצעים - κόπτων
חנם - κενῶν
חכללות - χαλκήλατος

Pro 23:30
They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
* היין , חיים

Pro 23:31
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red
when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

What religion is this?
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
paypal.me/Napples

Joseph D. L.
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:10 am

Re: Adam's tree

Post by Joseph D. L. » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:47 pm

semiopen wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:32 am
Joseph D. L. wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:02 pm
My post is appropriate for the Jewish forum. It's none of your business where I post what. Let me make this blatantly clear for you: YOU ARE IN NO POSITION TO TELL ME WHERE MY POSTS BELONG. UNLESS YOU ARE A MOD OR THE SITE ADMIN, YOUR WORD MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING REGARDING SUCH ISSUES.

Now, unless you have something relevant to the topic you would like to bring up, such as Jewish texts in which Adam becomes a tree or is connected to the Tree of Life, kindly refrain from making further superfluous comments.
You probably made your original post out of stupidity and are now simply making your error more grotesque with your despicable use of the C word in this forum.

You are now proselytizing. Perhaps the moderators are taking a gnostic view of this.

I've already shown that there is no Jewish equivalent to this degenerate line of inquiry.

A Jewish response to my complaint would be to stop posting on this forum and simply start a new thread on the Yoshke forum, perhaps linking to this one. But, of course, why should you be sensitive to other peoples feelings.
You really are a schmuck.

It's ironic that you sarcastically say that I'm being insensitive, while you make repeated derogatory remarks toward Christianity and are being the reactionary.

You are in no position of authority to dictate where anyone posts on here, your own religious feelings notwithstanding.

If I felt so inclined, and maybe I will do this, I would make a post about Justin saying the Mithraists coopted Daniel and Isaiah; or how YHWH is just a regional variant of Ba'al. Or about how Judaism is just a syncretic form of Canaanite paganism and Persian mysticism? I can post whatever I choose, because I don't have to consider your feelings as to whether such topics would be appropriate on this forum. Who are you? A nobody as far as I'm concerned.

Now do me the favour and never comment here or on any of my posts in future.

Joseph D. L.
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:10 am

Re: Adam's tree

Post by Joseph D. L. » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:49 pm

To everyone else, I appreciate your comments and for keeping them relevant to the topic at hand.

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