The Rabbinic Sources Confused Berenice and Helena
Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:20 pm
Investigating the roots of western civilization (ye olde BC&H forum of IIDB lives on...)
https://earlywritings.com/forum/
Yes, Simkovich's article is well written and seems to cover all the ground I had been aware of, plus specifics that I did not recall seeing before. I like that kind of thing.Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed May 30, 2018 8:36 amAgreed. That is one of my favorite kinds of articles, too: pick a topic, lay out both the original texts and their translations, and dive deep.
I think this correlates in some way with the "parable of the talents/pounds" (of precious metal, probably silver: τάλαντα talents Matt 25:15ff; μνᾶς minas Luke 19:12ff). If there is a correlation, it may be in the form of a negative commentary of King Izates II's willingness to deplete the national treasury of Adiabene rather than add to it at the time of the famine. The dynamics of this process boggles the mind.When her son Izates [II] learned of the famine, he likewise sent a great sum of money to leaders of the Jerusalemites. The distribution of this fund to the needy delivered many from the extremely severe pressure of the famine. (Ant. 20:53)
Josephus’ account has a direct parallel in rabbinic literature. Ironically, the one member of the royal family that does not appear in Josephus’ version, Monobazus II, is the hero of the rabbinic account.
Tosefta: Munbaz Saves Judea from Famine
Tosefta Peah (4:18) describes how Munbaz expended his country’s treasury to save the Judeans from famine:
It is related that King Munbaz got up and spent his entire treasury to assist [the Judeans] during years of famine. His kinsmen sent him a message: “Your fathers stored treasure and added to those of their ancestors, but you have got up and spent all of your treasury and that of your ancestors!” He said to them: “My fathers stored their treasure below, but I stored my treasure above, as it says (Ps 85:12), “truth springs up from the ground”…
The text continues in this vein, with Munbaz offering five more derashot about how his spending money on feeding the starving Jews is a better investment than stockpiling treasure.[20] Here again, Munbaz is painted in the light of truly pious man, and one whose loyalty is more with Judah than with his own nation. Moreover, Munbaz is the consummate rabbi, able to support his act with multiple midrashim on biblical verses.
Although the Rabbis bring up the same claim we find in Josephus, they not only conflate Izates II with Monobazus II, but forget entirely that the impetus for this amazing relief work was their mother, Helena.
This story of princess Berenice, daughter of King Agrippa I (ca. 40-44 CE), which is related to the rabbinic stories of Queen Helena's Nazirite vow (ca 40-55 CE?), seems (to me at least) to correlate with Paul's criticism of women who have their hair shorn or shaved off (κείρασθαι ἢ ξυρᾶσθαι) in 1 Corinthians 11:6.Helena’s Nazarite Vow
The Mishnah tells of Queen Helena of Adiabene, called Heleni HaMalka in Hebrew, who made a nazirite vow that she accidentally ended up doubling or tripling (m. Nazir 3:6):[1]
...
The Nazirite Vow: Confusing Berenice and Helena?
One element that does not appear in Josephus’ story [of Queen helena of Adiabene] is the nazirite vow. Nevertheless, Josephus does have a story about a “quasi-foreign” Jewish queen who made a nazirite vow, namely, Berenice, who was the daughter of King Agrippa I of Judea, son of Herod the Great.
Berenice, who was a generation younger than Helena, was already a fourth generation Jew on her father’s side. Her paternal great-grandfather, Antipater, was an Idumean convert, but she herself was born Jewish; moreover, she was of Hasmonean lineage from her grandmother Miriam (wife of Herod). At the same time, Berenice was also the Queen of Chalcis (a province in Syria), having married its king, Herod V (her paternal uncle), when she was a young woman.[9]
Josephus tells the following story about Berenice (Jud. War 2.15.1):
She was visiting Jerusalem to discharge a vow to God; for it is customary for those suffering from illness or other affliction to make a vow to abstain from wine and to shave their heads during the thirty days preceding that on which they must offer sacrifices.
Hmmm, that sentiment sounds familiar:DCHindley wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:58 amThe article mentions:
When her son Izates [II] learned of the famine, he likewise sent a great sum of money to leaders of the Jerusalemites. The distribution of this fund to the needy delivered many from the extremely severe pressure of the famine. (Ant. 20:53)
Josephus’ account has a direct parallel in rabbinic literature. Ironically, the one member of the royal family that does not appear in Josephus’ version, Monobazus II, is the hero of the rabbinic account.
Tosefta: Munbaz Saves Judea from Famine
Tosefta Peah (4:18) describes how Munbaz expended his country’s treasury to save the Judeans from famine:
It is related that King Munbaz got up and spent his entire treasury to assist [the Judeans] during years of famine. His kinsmen sent him a message: “Your fathers stored treasure and added to those of their ancestors, but you have got up and spent all of your treasury and that of your ancestors!” He said to them: “My fathers stored their treasure below, but I stored my treasure above, as it says (Ps 85:12), “truth springs up from the ground”…
....
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:24 amHmmm, that sentiment sounds familiar:DCHindley wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:58 amThe article mentions:
When her son Izates [II] learned of the famine, he likewise sent a great sum of money to leaders of the Jerusalemites. The distribution of this fund to the needy delivered many from the extremely severe pressure of the famine. (Ant. 20:53)
Josephus’ account has a direct parallel in rabbinic literature. Ironically, the one member of the royal family that does not appear in Josephus’ version, Monobazus II, is the hero of the rabbinic account.
Tosefta: Munbaz Saves Judea from Famine
Tosefta Peah (4:18) describes how Munbaz expended his country’s treasury to save the Judeans from famine:
It is related that King Munbaz got up and spent his entire treasury to assist [the Judeans] during years of famine. His kinsmen sent him a message: “Your fathers stored treasure and added to those of their ancestors, but you have got up and spent all of your treasury and that of your ancestors!” He said to them: “My fathers stored their treasure below, but I stored my treasure above, as it says (Ps 85:12), “truth springs up from the ground”…
....
Matthew 6.19-21: 19 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; 21 for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
Luke 12.33-34: 33 "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
Thomas 76: 76. Jesus said, "The Father's kingdom is like a merchant who had a supply of merchandise and found a pearl. That merchant was prudent; he sold the merchandise and bought the single pearl for himself. So also with you, seek his treasure that is unfailing, that is enduring, where no moth comes to eat and no worm destroys."
Justin Martyr, 1 Apology 15.11-12, 16: 11 But you, do not treasure up things for yourselves upon the earth, where moth and rust corrupt and thieves break in; but treasure up for yourselves things in the heavens, where neither moth nor rust corrupt. 12 For what does it benefit a man if he should gain the whole world but lose his soul? Or what shall he give in exchange for it? Treasure up things, therefore, in the heavens, where neither moth nor rust corrupt. .... 16 But seek the kingdom of the heavens, and all these things will be added to you. For, where his treasure is, there also the mind of a man.
In my treatment of the parable of the pounds/talents: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2159, I took up Petri Luomanen's suggestion that in the Judaic/Hebraic version of this parable (the one described by Eusebius from some Jewish-Christian gospel or other) the slave who hid the talents was the good one, since the multiplication of wealth was considered morally dubious. Thomas 64 memorably asserts that "businessmen and merchants will not enter" the places of the father, earning interest on loans (from compatriots) was forbidden by the Mosaic Law, and rabbinical sources specifically state that hiding a friend's money for him is a perfectly reasonable way of taking care of his affairs for him in his absence.DCHindley wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:29 am Hi Ben,
What was most interesting for me was the debate over what proper management of resources was all about, and what it should be all about.
The rabbis remember king Izates' generosity as a good thing (although calling him Monobazus), although he received criticism for it (from his nobles?) as unwise management of resources.
The gospels, on the other hand, in the parable of the talents/minas, seem to favor the good steward who manages his master's resources to increase return on investment. But other sayings seem to go the opposite way, and favor generosity over financial soundness, sometimes with a moralization to justify it (slave about to be fired, etc.).
I do recall such a series of posts, but at the time I was not in a position to read it carefully and fully comprehend your arguments. I'll look it over again!Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:07 amIn my treatment of the parable of the pounds/talents: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2159, I took up Petri Luomanen's suggestion that the Judaic/Hebraic version of this parable (the one described by Eusebius from some Jewish-Christian gospel or other) the slave who hid the talents was the good one, since the multiplication of wealth was considered morally dubious. Thomas 64 memorably asserts that "businessmen and merchants will not enter" the places of the father, earning interest on loans (from compatriots) was forbidden by the Mosaic Law, and rabbinical sources specifically state that hiding a friend's money for him is a perfectly reasonable way of taking care of his affairs for him in his absence.DCHindley wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:29 amWhat was most interesting for me was the debate over what proper management of resources was all about, and what it should be all about.
The rabbis remember king Izates' generosity as a good thing (although calling him Monobazus), although he received criticism for it (from his nobles?) as unwise management of resources.
The gospels, on the other hand, in the parable of the talents/minas, seem to favor the good steward who manages his master's resources to increase return on investment. But other sayings seem to go the opposite way, and favor generosity over financial soundness, sometimes with a moralization to justify it (slave about to be fired, etc.).
This contrast seems at least similar to what you are saying about the rabbis' reaction to Izates' generosity: two very different sets of moral values are in competition, one which favors investment and increase, while the other frowns upon those activities as untrusting of God. "Give us this day our daily bread," not "give us enough money that we never have to worry day by day about bread again."