Isaiah 9:6 - Past Tense

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 - Past Tense

Post by Ben C. Smith » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:38 pm

Ethan wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:22 pm
Gen 41:13 - ויהי כאשר פתר־לנו (and came too pass)
ἐγενήθη δὲ καθὼς συνέκρινεν ἡμῖν

ילד־לנו : ἐγεννήθη ἡμῖν "was Born to us"
נתן־לנו : ἐδόθη ἡμῖν "was given to us"
Do you see what I am talking about? Or are you ignoring my critique and moving on to new words to misread?
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Ethan
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 - Past Tense

Post by Ethan » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:51 pm

You just trying too defend your messianic apologetic stance that the entire Old Testament is psychic literature
that only serves too supplements the New Testament.

The authors of the Septuagint are aware that Isaiah is past tense and most of the language
is botanic , Is the child in Isaiah 9:6 a plant, Isaiah 11:1 suggest soo.

Isaiah 11:1
ויצא חטר מגזע ישי / καὶ ἐξελεύσεται ῥάβδος ἐκ τῆς ῥίζης Ιεσσαι
"And came out a rod (fennel) from the root of Jesse and the flower from the root shall go up.
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 - Past Tense

Post by Ben C. Smith » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:53 pm

Ethan wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:51 pm
You just trying too defend your messianic apologetic stance that the entire Old Testament is psychic literature
that only serves too supplements the New Testament.
What?? You are obviously on something.
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 - Past Tense

Post by Ben C. Smith » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:55 pm

I do not think that any OT predictions are fulfilled in the NT. I pointed out an egregious error on your part, nothing more; my work here is done.
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Ethan
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 - Past Tense

Post by Ethan » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:44 pm

Greek makes it clear that the verse is past tense , ἐγεννήθη the aorist indicative passive
of the verb, γεννάω "give birth to" , the same word used in Act 7:20, Matthew 1:16 and Mark 14:21.

ἐδόθη is the aorist indicative passive of the verb δίδωμι "was given".

In the Orphic Hymn 42, Dionysus as the epithet, Μισης (Mises) and called the offspring of the Good counselor

πολύβουλε, - counselor. Diónysos is πολύβουλος (adj. fem./masc. nom.), exceedingly wise.
Εὐβουλεῦ, - Evvouléfs (Εὐβουλεύς. Noun, masc. nom.) as an epithet of Diónysos. The name means prudent or of good counsel. In the mythology of Ælefsinian Mysteries the name seems to refer to a specific historical personage, but in the Orphic Hymns, it is applied many times to Diónysos. He is called by this name at 29.8 in the hymn to Περσεφόνη, at 30.6 in the hymn to Diónysos (this hymn), at 41.8 in the hymn to Μήτηρ Ανταία, at 42.2 in the hymn to Μίσα, at 52.4 in the hymn to Τριετηρικός, and at 72.3 in the hymn to Τύχη, all these specifically referring to Diónysos as Εὐβουλεύς. In 56.3 the name is given to Ἄδωνις but this may be using the name in the sense that all souls who have been deified may be called Diónysis.
Isaiah 9:6 - πολύβουλος
* פלא (βουλος) יועץ(πολύ)

Isaiah are thus reworking of the Orphic Hymns to Dionysus.
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 - Past Tense

Post by Ethan » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:10 pm

Exodus 17:15 - ויקרא שמו יהוה נסי "And shall call his name Dionysus"
Isaiah 9:6 - ויקרא שמו פלא יועץ "And shall call his name Polyboulos"
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