Can you confirm the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden?

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Gnostic Bishop
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Can you confirm the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden?

Post by Gnostic Bishop »

Can you confirm the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden?

http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php

I have been looking for confirmation of the Jewish view of Eden as our elevation as compared to the fall that Christianity wrote into Eden.

Can any here add to this issue and speculate as to why Christianity reversed what would have been a win win situation to a lose lose one?

Regards
DL
beowulf
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Re: Can you confirm the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden

Post by beowulf »

The original sin is a theological invention of Augustine of Hippo in the 5th century.
A good summary from the RCC in this link
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congr ... ts_en.html


What do you think that Judaism say about Eden?
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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Can you confirm the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden

Post by Gnostic Bishop »

beowulf wrote:The original sin is a theological invention of Augustine of Hippo in the 5th century.
A good summary from the RCC in this link
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congr ... ts_en.html


What do you think that Judaism say about Eden?
Thanks for the link.

Basically, I think Judaism says what my link showed. I do not have anything else at present except that they are getting away from literal reading which is nice.

I think that to the old Jews, Eden was basically a myth of rite of passage from child to man.

I think that Jews, like Gnostic Christians have a love hate relationship with God. They seem to strive both with and against God. That seems to me to be a good position with all of our masters be they political or religious.

Both those entities should fear and serve man. That is what I get from the message of freedom Jesus preached. Not the Rome invented boot licking Jesus but the Jewish and Gnostic Christian Jesus. The one that still retained pride and a thirst for freedom from oppression.

Regards
DL
semiopen
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Re: Can you confirm the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden

Post by semiopen »

It's optimistic to think that Jews would have a unified opinion about anything, much less something theological.

The link in the OP doesn't even mention the term Kabbalah. The link might describe a kosher Jewish view but it's not the Jewish view. It might be a great article but the author's presumptuousness is annoying, I just glanced at it and scanned for Kabbalah.

Sephirot
The Sephirot are united in the Divine view. Medieval Kabbalah describes the sin of Adam as introducing false separation between male Divine and female Shechina, by eating from the Tree of Knowledge before the Tree of Life, two aspects of the Sephirot.
This subject is easy to research, for example, google Kabbalah "original sin"

From Metaphysics to Midrash: Myth, History, and the Interpretation of Scripture in Lurianic Kabbala - http://www.amazon.com/From-Metaphysics- ... 0253350883

spends some time discussing the sin of Adam in the context of Lurianic Kabbalah.

http://books.google.com/books?id=YUbGlH ... in&f=false

The Lurianic concept is probably slightly different than Augustine's, but the claim that no concept of original sin exists in Judaism is absurd.
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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Can you confirm the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden

Post by Gnostic Bishop »

Thanks for this.

To your last.

Yet a Jewish view of forgiveness seems to not include original sin.

http://www.thepowerofforgiveness.com/pd ... veness.pdf

Regards
DL
beowulf
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Re: Can you confirm the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden

Post by beowulf »

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Thanks for this.

To your last.

Yet a Jewish view of forgiveness seems to not include original sin.

http://www.thepowerofforgiveness.com/pd ... veness.pdf

Regards
DL
Please. what do you think the " original sin" is?
What is "our elevation in Eden"?

What do you mean by this , "Christianity reversed what would have been a win win situation to a lose lose one"?
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Can you confirm the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden?
Can any here add to this issue and speculate as to why Christianity reversed what would have been a win win situation to a lose lose one?

Regards
DL
semiopen
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Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:27 pm

Re: Can you confirm the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden

Post by semiopen »

This looks like the latest installment of a bunch of stupid identical threads...

Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall? - http://forums.canadiancontent.net/spiri ... -eden.html

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread985492/pg1

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion- ... -fall.html

etc etc.

If you search for "elevation eden jewish" you get a million hits on message boards.

Sick shit.
beowulf
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Re: Can you confirm the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden

Post by beowulf »

The internet is full of these noisy incoherent wise guys.

They know it was Caesar, hycarnus,cleopatra and so on. They all love to quote this and that and they quote bloggers and published authors like Catholics quote a cardinal.

The enterprising ones write books about Odysseus , astrology and whatever.

It is like a zoo.
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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Can you confirm the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden

Post by Gnostic Bishop »

beowulf wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Thanks for this.

To your last.

Yet a Jewish view of forgiveness seems to not include original sin.

http://www.thepowerofforgiveness.com/pd ... veness.pdf

Regards
DL
Please. what do you think the " original sin" is?
Christian dogma says that the disobedience of A & E put original sin into all of us.
What is "our elevation in Eden"?
God's command basically tells A & E to remain in ignorant bliss and as bright as bricks.

Our elevation is A & E having enough sense to tell that God where to go with his really stupid command.
What do you mean by this , "Christianity reversed what would have been a win win situation to a lose lose one"?
In the Jewish view of our elevation, we come out of Eden as winners with --- they have become like Gods in the knowing of good and evil. God also wins by his educating his new children. That is a win win situation for all parties.

In the Christian view, becoming as Gods is somehow evil because we disobeyed God's command to stay stupid and blind and never have our eyes opened. That is lose lose for all parties involved.

Christians see a Original Sin while the Jews see Original Virtue.

http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php
Regards
DL
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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Can you confirm the Jewish view of our elevation in Eden

Post by Gnostic Bishop »

semiopen wrote:This looks like the latest installment of a bunch of stupid identical threads...

Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall? - http://forums.canadiancontent.net/spiri ... -eden.html

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread985492/pg1

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion- ... -fall.html

etc etc.

If you search for "elevation eden jewish" you get a million hits on message boards.

Sick shit.
Drive by stone throwers have no intelligence.

Regards
DL
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