Some questions about the Septuagint

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
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toejam
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Some questions about the Septuagint

Post by toejam »

I'm sure some here know the answers to these somewhat specific questions:

What books did the original Septuagint include? Did it include 1 & 2 Maccabees, Tobit, Daniel 13, 1 Enoch etc.? Similarly, was there any book in the Old Testament today that wasn't included in the Septuagint?

What is the oldest mostly-complete copy of the Septuagint that has survived?

Are there any alternative-version Septuagints? i.e. those with different combinations of texts?

Any good websites/resources you could recommend to help me increase my knowledge of the formulation of the Septuagint?
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DCHindley
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Re: Some questions about the Septuagint

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toejam wrote:I'm sure some here know the answers to these somewhat specific questions:

What books did the original Septuagint include? Did it include 1 & 2 Maccabees, Tobit, Daniel 13, 1 Enoch etc.? Similarly, was there any book in the Old Testament today that wasn't included in the Septuagint?
Uh, no. The first five books translated were the books of the Law (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers & Deuteronomy). The semi-legendary story behind this is told in the Letter of Aristeas, in which the Egyptian king (he was actually Greek) commissioned the translation in the mid 3rd century BCE. Supposedly, each tribe sent six translators to Alexandria, seventy two total (the abbreviation is LXX, Latin for 70 - I guess the difference never bothered anybody), and they independently translated all the books exactly the same (the legendary element).

http://archive.org/search.php?query=tit ... 28Swete%29
What is the oldest mostly-complete copy of the Septuagint that has survived?

Are there any alternative-version Septuagints? i.e. those with different combinations of texts?
Well, other Greek speaking Jews translated the other books, mainly the Prophets but also the "Writings" (Daniel, Ezra-Nehemiah, Chronicles, etc), and there were sometimes multiple translations floating about (you can see some of the differences in quotes and allusions in the NT and other literature). There were other books, some translated from Hebrew or Aramaic but others composed in Greek, besides those later considered as sacred scripture by Jews (all of these are preserved only in Hebrew). The other books were likely translated by the turn of the Christian era. Many present day specialists prefer to reserve the name "Septuagint" (Latin for Seventy) to the books of the law, and call the other translated books the "Old Greek." The books not preserved by Jews in Hebrew, but survive only in Greek, are what is known as the Apocrypha.

The Christians, who - despite the assertions of many - were not Hebrews and knew only Greek, adopted the Greek translations made by Jews and several other books written in Greek, and circulated the more popular ones (among Christians, at least) as the Christian "Old Testament." It was not old to Jews, though. Jews apparently circulated these translated books and Greek compositions on individual rolls, while the Christians preferred the codex (book) format.

There are some fragments of Greek translations of Jewish scripture among the Dead Sea Scrolls.There were other attempts to translate the Hebrew books made by Jews such as Aquila, Theodotion and Symmachus in the first couple centuries CE. Some copies and fragments have survived in medieval copies stored in synagogue storage rooms in the middle east, mainly the translation of Aquila.

As Christians became more aware of the Hebrew originals and because of disputes with Jews, they changed their minds about the quality of some of the translations they had adopted, replacing some books like the "Old Greek" Daniel with the translation of Theodotion and the Greek translation used to edit 2nd Esdras (a distinct edition of Ezra-Nehemiah) was different than the ones used in the Christian OT. The Christian OT often preserved several translations of books like Ezra-Nehemiah. I think there may be less than a half dozen complete Christian codices of the NT & OT, usually containing at least some of the Jewish Apocrypha, sometimes also apocryphal Christian books as well.

Any good websites/resources you could recommend to help me increase my knowledge of the formulation of the Septuagint?[/quote]

The Wiki page on the Septuagint is currently pretty good.

DCH
Mental flatliner
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Re: Some questions about the Septuagint

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DCHindley wrote: The Christians, who - despite the assertions of many - were not Hebrews and knew only Greek, adopted the Greek translations made by Jews and several other books written in Greek, and circulated the more popular ones (among Christians, at least) as the Christian "Old Testament." It was not old to Jews, though. Jews apparently circulated these translated books and Greek compositions on individual rolls, while the Christians preferred the codex (book) format.
This is a false assumption.

From 30 to 50 AD, most of the Roman empire had no idea that they were supposed to think of Christians as non-Jewish.

This was the formative period for the New Testament when most of the documents were produced. (And if the Christians were non-Jews, they would have no need of Jewish scripture if their own New Testament was already available in Greek).

The impetus for producing an Old Testment in Greek had nothing to do with Christianity. It was motivated by the galut (later the diaspora) Jews who were beginning to lose the need for Hebrew.
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Re: Some questions about the Septuagint

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toejam wrote:I'm sure some here know the answers to these somewhat specific questions:

What books did the original Septuagint include? Did it include 1 & 2 Maccabees, Tobit, Daniel 13, 1 Enoch etc.? Similarly, was there any book in the Old Testament today that wasn't included in the Septuagint?

What is the oldest mostly-complete copy of the Septuagint that has survived?

Are there any alternative-version Septuagints? i.e. those with different combinations of texts?

Any good websites/resources you could recommend to help me increase my knowledge of the formulation of the Septuagint?
Because Philo wrote in Greek and lived in Alexandria, it might be reasonable to assume that the following books already existed in Greek from 30-50 AD:

Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy
Joshua
Judges
Samuel
Kings
Chronicles
Ezra
Job
Psalms
Proverbs
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Hosea
Zechariah

(These were the books quoted directly by Philo. Whether he quoted directly from a Greek source or translated them into Greek is not known, but the act of translating Hebrew scripture into any other language was always a controversial activity. From 70 to 94 AD, Josephus avoided direct translation and rewrote Old Testament passages and stories in his own words.)
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Re: Some questions about the Septuagint

Post by beowulf »

toejam wrote:I'm sure some here know the answers to these somewhat specific questions:

What books did the original Septuagint include? Did it include 1 & 2 Maccabees, Tobit, Daniel 13, 1 Enoch etc.? Similarly, was there any book in the Old Testament today that wasn't included in the Septuagint?

What is the oldest mostly-complete copy of the Septuagint that has survived?

Are there any alternative-version Septuagints? i.e. those with different combinations of texts?

Any good websites/resources you could recommend to help me increase my knowledge of the formulation of the Septuagint?


8 Tevet 3515 - 247 B.C.E.:
Torah translated into Greek (the Septuagint).

After an unsuccessful attempt 61 years earlier, the ruling Greek-Egyptian emperor Talmai (Ptolemy) made a second attempt to translate the Torah into Greek. He gathered 72 Torah sages, sequestered them in 72 separate chambers, without revealing to them why they were called. He then ordered each of them to: “Write for me the Torah of Moshe, your teacher.” In other words, produce a translation of the Torah.

During Talmudic times, 8 Tevet was observed by some as a taanit tzaddikim (a fast day for the righteous), (Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim 580:2). The translation of the Torah was a tragic moment for the Jewish people, a tragedy Chazal describe in Megillat Taanit as “three days of darkness” descending upon the world. It was viewed tragically by the sages, as it promised to drain Jewish vitality and increase the ability of non-Jewish sects to proselytize the Jews. The project was considered as tragic an event as the day the Jews made the eigel HaZahav / Golden Calf - since it was impossible to adequately translate the Torah, the fast day expressed the fear of the detrimental effect of the translation.
On the positive side, the Septuagint opened up the Torah to the masses -- helping to spread Jewish ideals of monotheism, peace and justice, which became the basic moral standards of the civilized world.


http://www.torahtots.com/timecapsule/th ... evet.htm#8
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toejam
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Re: Some questions about the Septuagint

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DCHindley wrote:The first five books translated were the books of the Law (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers & Deuteronomy).
Ah... Suddenly things make more sense! I had always just assumed it was more than that. Thanks!
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