Scholars debate the question, whether inhabitants of Canaan in the pre-exilic period - possibly including worshipers of Yahweh - literally sacrificed children to gods. There are scriptural references to this practice, but some authorities say that it did not actually occur.
Does anyone have information about this topic?
I posted it over on Ex-Christians.net as well, where I include some links:
http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/62564 ... 3tSH_ldXUU
Did Canaanites sacrifice children?
Re: Did Canaanites sacrifice children?
On first sight, I thought of the Phoenicians -
Child_sacrifice
The bible itself is relatively clear that this was practiced even by the Israelites, but it makes you wonder about whether it is just fabricated. Sort of a typical Israelite example of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
I've always wondered whether oral history (like a meteor or whatever dropping on Sodom) isn't just stupid bullshit. Interesting topic.
Child_sacrificeI didn't know this... makes one think.Carthage was notorious to its neighbors for child sacrifice. Plutarch (ca. 46–120 AD) mentions the practice, as do Tertullian, Orosius and Diodorus Siculus. However, Livy and Polybius do not. The Hebrew Bible also mentions what appears to be child sacrifice practiced at a place called the Tophet ("roasting place") by the Canaanites, ancestors of the Carthaginians, and by some Israelites.
Some of these sources suggest that babies were roasted to death on a heated bronze statue. According to Diodorus Siculus, "There was in their city a bronze image of Cronus extending its hands, palms up and sloping toward the ground, so that each of the children when placed thereon rolled down and fell into a sort of gaping pit filled with fire."(Bib. Hist. 20.14.6)
Sites within Carthage and other Phoenician centers revealed the remains of infants and children in large numbers; some historians[citation needed] interpret this as evidence for frequent and prominent child sacrifice to the god Ba'al Hammon.
The accuracy of such stories is disputed by some modern historians and archaeologists.[12] At Carthage, a large cemetery exists that combines the bodies of both very young children and small animals, and those who argue in favor of child sacrifice have argued that if the animals were sacrificed then so too were the children.[13] However, recent archaeological work has produced a detailed breakdown of the age of the buried children and based on this, and especially on the presence of pre natal individuals - that is still births, it is also argued that this site is consistent with the burial of children who had died from natural causes in a society that had a high infant mortality rate - as Carthage is assumed to have been. I.e. this data supports the view that Tophets were cemeteries for those who died shortly before or after birth, regardless of the cause.[13]
The bible itself is relatively clear that this was practiced even by the Israelites, but it makes you wonder about whether it is just fabricated. Sort of a typical Israelite example of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
I've always wondered whether oral history (like a meteor or whatever dropping on Sodom) isn't just stupid bullshit. Interesting topic.
Re: Did Canaanites sacrifice children?
Yes, I saw that Wikipedia article - not crazy about it. Here's another from Patheos:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromo ... nt-israel/
The author of the above concludes that it's likely that children were sacrificed to Yahweh and El up into the first half of the first millenium BCE.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromo ... nt-israel/
The author of the above concludes that it's likely that children were sacrificed to Yahweh and El up into the first half of the first millenium BCE.
Re: Did Canaanites sacrifice children?
Fascinating subject. I was going to comment – until I read your linkficino wrote:Scholars debate the question, whether inhabitants of Canaan in the pre-exilic period - possibly including worshipers of Yahweh - literally sacrificed children to gods. There are scriptural references to this practice, but some authorities say that it did not actually occur.
Does anyone have information about this topic?
I posted it over on Ex-Christians.net as well, where I include some links:
http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/62564 ... 3tSH_ldXUU
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromo ... nt-israel/
Your link essentially says everything I was going to say. And that works out good for me, because I don’t have a lot of time to discuss this. However, I would be very leery of any information posted on a Mormon website.
Suffice to say, John Day rocks. So does Mark S. Smith.
Molech/molek was not a god. Molech/molek was some type of sacrificial ritual.
You might want to learn more about the “Tophet” and “Valley of Ben Hinnom/ fiery pit” thing. The Tophet was probably some type of sacrificial altar. The “Valley of Ben Hinnom/ fiery pit” thing probably evolved over time into Christian Hellfire. Look at Daniel 12:1-2 and Isaiah 66:22-24.
Yahweh was probably not a Canaanite god. There is no mention of Yahweh at Ugarit, and Yahweh was not the original god of Israel. (“El is the god of Israel” – Genesis 33:20) Yahweh probably came from a separate tradition. See Deuteronomy 33:2 and Psalm 82.
Last edited by Bingo on Tue May 20, 2014 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Did Canaanites sacrifice children?
Yeah, that was my impression but I was surprised that Phoenicia/Carthage is no longer considered clear.
The link mentions burned children's bones in Ammon in Transjordan. There has been a lot of work at various high places which sort of proves Josiah was probably not as diligent in his centralization campaign as many people think, but I don't think they've recovered burned human bones at those places. Of course, if you pass your kid through the fire you probably want to save the bones.
The link mentions burned children's bones in Ammon in Transjordan. There has been a lot of work at various high places which sort of proves Josiah was probably not as diligent in his centralization campaign as many people think, but I don't think they've recovered burned human bones at those places. Of course, if you pass your kid through the fire you probably want to save the bones.
Last edited by semiopen on Tue May 20, 2014 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Did Canaanites sacrifice children?
There is a strange law in Lev 18:21a You will not give any of your seed to cross to Moloch (see also Lev 20:2). 2 Kgs 23:10 seems to explain crossing to Moloch by inserting "fire", ie "crossing the fire to Moloch". If the law in Lev 18:21a is now clear, it seems like a strange law to impose if it has no factual basis.
Dysexlia lures • ⅔ of what we see is behind our eyes
Re: Did Canaanites sacrifice children?
Has anyone mentioned Isaiah 30:29-33?
Such shall be your song, as on a night a
feast is celebrated with gladness of
heart, as when one marches in procession
with the flute, to enter the mountain of
Yahweh, to the Rock of Israel. Yahweh
has made heard the crash of His voice,
the down-sweep of His arm he has
displayed, with hot wrath and flame of
consuming fire, cloudburst and flood and
hailstones. Yes! At the voice of Yahweh
Assyria will cower- with His staff He
will beat him. Every passage of the rod
of His punishment which Yahweh will lay
upon him will be to the sound of
timbrels and lyres; with battles of
offerings He will fight against him. For
his Tophet has long been prepared, He
himself is installed as a victim.
Yahweh has made its fire-pit
deep and wide, with fire and wood in
abundance. The breath of Yahweh, like a
torrent of sulphur, sets it ablaze!
Such shall be your song, as on a night a
feast is celebrated with gladness of
heart, as when one marches in procession
with the flute, to enter the mountain of
Yahweh, to the Rock of Israel. Yahweh
has made heard the crash of His voice,
the down-sweep of His arm he has
displayed, with hot wrath and flame of
consuming fire, cloudburst and flood and
hailstones. Yes! At the voice of Yahweh
Assyria will cower- with His staff He
will beat him. Every passage of the rod
of His punishment which Yahweh will lay
upon him will be to the sound of
timbrels and lyres; with battles of
offerings He will fight against him. For
his Tophet has long been prepared, He
himself is installed as a victim.
Yahweh has made its fire-pit
deep and wide, with fire and wood in
abundance. The breath of Yahweh, like a
torrent of sulphur, sets it ablaze!