Was Christianity started by born Jews?

[beowulf]

Was Christianity started by born Jews?

http://www.torahcafe.com/professor-lawr ... 34da4.html
Who was a Jew? Professor Lawrence Schiffman

The link is a video to a lecture lecture by Professor Schiffman on the origins of Christianity –among many other subjects.
The Christian origins begin at 19.33 minutes. At approximately 26.42 Professor Schiffman says that the first Christians were born Jews.

In his book: Who was a Jew? Professor Schiffman discusses the benediction against the minim which the professor says was a curse directed against the Christian Jews with the intention of separating the Jewish Christians from the mainstream Jewish community. It happened under the leadership of Rabban Gamliel II at Yavneh in the post destruction period

Who was a Jew?
Lawrence H. Schiffman, Ktav Publishing House, Inc. Hoboken, New Jersey1985ISBN 088125 054 6.
Pages 53ff
Is this statement from professor Schiffman good evidence for the existence of Jewish Christians circa 70 AD?

[stephan happy huller]

Jews think all of the rest of human history was just a footnote to their own story. I know this because I do the very same thing. Learned it from my mother. There is an unholy alliance that has formed between Jews and evangelicals which over-emphasizes 'the Jewishness' of Jesus, Paul, Christianity etc. 'Jewishness' defining Israelite religion as part of the story of mainstream Judaism today. The surviving Jewish tradition was only that portion of the greater tradition that managed to gain the favor of the Imperial government in the third century or at least didn't find itself at odds with Commodus and the Severan Emperors (177 - 234 CE).

That is why it is a healthy thing to incorporate the beliefs of the Sadducees and Samaritans into the discussion - even recognize proselytes as a separate tradition - rather than fall into the trap of James Tabor and Simcha Jacobovici etc

Yes there is a connection with Israelite religion but not the way these partisans want it to be found.

[beowulf]

Was Christianity born Jewish?
Rabbi Jeffrey Cohen: Blessed are you: A comprehensive guide to Jewish prayer.
Page 37ff,

The original version [of the Amidah] as recited in ancient Palestine, and as discovered this century in the Cairo Genizah, represents a far more passionate condemnatory targeting of various groups who were a thorn in the flesh of the first century Jewish community in the holy land:

Ve-ha-notzrim ve-a minim ka rega yoveidu yimmachu mi-sefer ha chayyim ve-im tzaddikim al yikatevu ,and may the Christians and other heretics perish in an instant. May they be erased from the Book of Life, never to be inscribed with the righteous.


Our tame Babylonian version [of the Amidah]is to be explained quiet simply by the fact that Babylonian Jewry was never troubled by any of the schismatics referred to in the Palestinian version. They were no Christians in Babylonia where the Jews lived an independent autonomous existence under the largely tolerant and benign rule of successive Parthian and Persian dynasties”

Blessed are you
Jason Aronson Inc.Northvale,New Jersey.London,1993

[MrMacSon]

... There is an unholy alliance that has formed between Jews and evangelicals which over-emphasizes 'the Jewishness' of Jesus, Paul, Christianity etc.

'evangelicals' - today's Christian evangelicals? since, say, ~1990?

[spin]

Was Christianity born Jewish?
Rabbi Jeffrey Cohen: Blessed are you: A comprehensive guide to Jewish prayer.
Page 37ff,

The original version [of the Amidah] as recited in ancient Palestine, and as discovered this century in the Cairo Genizah, represents a far more passionate condemnatory targeting of various groups who were a thorn in the flesh of the first century Jewish community in the holy land:

Ve-ha-notzrim ve-a minim ka rega yoveidu yimmachu mi-sefer ha chayyim ve-im tzaddikim al yikatevu ,and may the Christians and other heretics perish in an instant. May they be erased from the Book of Life, never to be inscribed with the righteous.


Our tame Babylonian version [of the Amidah]is to be explained quiet simply by the fact that Babylonian Jewry was never troubled by any of the schismatics referred to in the Palestinian version. They were no Christians in Babylonia where the Jews lived an independent autonomous existence under the largely tolerant and benign rule of successive Parthian and Persian dynasties”

Jeffrey Cohen is in no position to say what the original version of the birkat ha-minim was. Once you remove that assertion and the over-hopeful use of the Fustat mediaeval copies, we are left with the original story (Ber. 28b-29a) of the commission of the birkat ha-minim by Gamaliel II in the idyllic Javneh era. That commission was specifically about the minim not the notzrim and the minim. Cohen is talking through his hat in the paragraph about the "tame Babylonian version". He needs to read scholarship in the area. There have been a number of analyses of the context of the birkat ha-minim over the last twenty years and none agree with the quote above.

[beowulf]

THE MEANING OF SHEMONEH ESREI
By Rav Ezra Bick

http://vbm-torah.org/archive/18/17-18.htm

There are an unusual number of different versions of this berakha, which reflects its history, subject to non-Jewish assault and Jewish self-censorship.........

These are the times of the Judeo-Christian sects who were still part of the Jewish community, as well as other deviations, such as the gnostics, etc. In fact, the opening word of our text - "malshinim" (informers) is generally assumed to be a censored replacement for something more explicit, (the most common sources use the word "meshumadim"), including the possibility of "notzrim" found in some old texts, or "tzedukim," itself a common replacement for Christians, or heretics.


Nevertheless, the ferocity of the imprecations of this "blessing" undoubtedly cause concern, especially within the context of daily prayer. "Uproot, shatter, crush, and subdue, cut off and eradicate" - the berakha seems to delight in piling on synonyms of destruction.........


C. Heretics


But this is only the original framework of the blessing. To this, the Sages added the "birkat ha-minim," the blessing on heretics. This clearly refers to Jews, like the ancient Judeo-Christian sects. By including them together with "the evil empire," the Sages are indicating that we are no longer hoping for their repentance, but for their destruction. They are no longer seen as sinners but as representatives of sin, of evil. And this, I imagine, leaves all of us feeling more than a little uncomfortable.

....
(R. Yehuda b. Yakar answers that we recite this blessing only after having previously prayed for the repentance of all Jews. We are now only praying for destruction on the assumption that repentance is no longer an option).

Were the first Christians unrepentant Jews beyond redemption?

[spin]

THE MEANING OF SHEMONEH ESREI
By Rav Ezra Bick

You need to get beyond selecting convenient internet quotes and go for scholarship. Books and scholarly journals.

The relationship between the Jews and christians at the earliest times is still rather obscure.

Were the first Christians unrepentant Jews beyond redemption?

That just sounds like religious propaganda and it is not conducive to reasoned discussion.

[beowulf]

Was Christianity a breakaway sect of Judaism?

http://noahide-ancient-path.co.uk/index ... 2/07/4447/

In his writings on Christianity, which he calls, “Minut,” Rabbi Avraham Yitzhak HaKohen Kook explains that it began as a breakaway sect of Judaism which grew in influence and ultimately led the world astray with its doctrines. He categorizes it as idol worship, and says that its founder brought the majority of the world to err by serving a god other than the Almighty. By abandoning the mitzvot, Christianity enshrouded the world in a seemingly legitimate offshoot of idol worship. While imitating many of Judaism’s values and beliefs, Christianity actually led the world away from the true service of God.

[spin]

Was Christianity a breakaway sect of Judaism?

http://noahide-ancient-path.co.uk/index ... 2/07/4447/

In his writings on Christianity, which he calls, “Minut,” Rabbi Avraham Yitzhak HaKohen Kook explains that it began as a breakaway sect of Judaism which grew in influence and ultimately led the world astray with its doctrines. He categorizes it as idol worship, and says that its founder brought the majority of the world to err by serving a god other than the Almighty. By abandoning the mitzvot, Christianity enshrouded the world in a seemingly legitimate offshoot of idol worship. While imitating many of Judaism’s values and beliefs, Christianity actually led the world away from the true service of God.

More internet schlock. Scraping specious stuff off the internet is no substitute for research and discussion. Perhaps someone else will be more inclined to swallow this cut-and-paste doctrinaire substitute for dialogue.

[beowulf]

Professor Cook writes in his book Modern Jews Engage:

Christianity, still deeply bonded to Judaism, accepted and based itself on the Jewish scriptures...Replicating Judaism’s synagogue structure and its networking enabled Christianity to offer a cohesiveness that pagan religions (commonly organized as local enclaves) could not match.

Moreover, Judaism at this point in its history, was modelling a creative and successful missionary style that also allowed for attracting and accepting in a kind of secondary status, Gentiles whom it styled “God-fearers”. These shared the faith, the worship and the ethical commitment of Judaism but were not obliged to adult male circumcision or to full compliance with the dietary laws, and thus were not full converts.

When Christianity emerged, however, it promised Gentiles acceptance as full members while allowing them to bypass the barriers of Jewish dietary laws and circumcision.God-fearers became key agents in publicizing Christianity’s appeal among the pagans.

Professor Rabbi Michael J. Cook
Modern Jews Engage the New Testament

Jewish Lights Publishing Woodstock, Vermont, 2008

Pages 38ff

Did Christianity use the synagogue networking as a Trojan horse?