but that quote is evidence of precisely the contrary of what Pearson claims!Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:26 pmHere it is:Giuseppe wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:11 pmThis is the book 4 of the Stromata of Clement:Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:32 pmThat Jesus did in fact suffer is affirmed in a quotation of Basilides preserved by Clement (Strom. 4.83.1), a passage to which we shall return.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/02104.htm
Can someone say me where Basilides would say that "Jesus did in fact suffer"?
Thanks in advance.
Clement of Alexandria, Miscellanies 4.12.83a: 83a Then, in continuation, he says expressly concerning the Lord, as concerning man, "If, then, passing from all these observations, you were to proceed to put me to shame by saying, perchance impersonating certain parties, 'This man has then sinned, for this man has suffered" — if you permit, I will say, 'He has not sinned, but was like a child suffering.' If you were to insist more urgently, I would say that the man you name is man, but that God is righteous: 'For no one is pure,' as one said, 'from filth' (= Job 14:4). / 83a εἶθ' ὑποβὰς καὶ περὶ τοῦ κυρίου ἄντικρυς ὡς περὶ ἀνθρώπου λέγει· «ἐὰν μέντοι παραλιπὼν τούτους ἅπαντας τοὺς λόγους ἔλθῃς ἐπὶ τὸ δυσωπεῖν με διὰ προσώπων τινῶν, εἰ τύχοι, λέγων, ὁ δεῖνα οὖν ἥμαρτεν, ἔπαθεν γὰρ ὁ δεῖνα, ἐὰν μὲν ἐπιτρέπῃς, ἐρῶ, οὐχ ἥμαρτεν μέν, ὅμοιος δὲ ἦν τῷ πάσχοντι νηπίῳ· εἰ μέντοι σφοδρότερον ἐκβιάσαιο τὸν λόγον, ἐρῶ, ἄνθρωπον ὅντιν' ἂν ὀνομάσῃς ἄνθρωπον εἶναι, δίκαιον δὲ τὸν θεόν. καθαρὸς γὰρ οὐδείς, ὥσπερ εἶπέ τις, ἀπὸ ῥύπου.»
An enemy of Basilides is accusing the his Christ:
'This man has then sinned, for this man has suffered"
And Basilides replies by claiming that not only Jesus doesn't sin, but he didn't suffer really, but only in appearance, in the form of another:
'He has not sinned, but was like a child suffering.'
An equivalent translation is:
'He has not sinned, but was similar to a child suffering.'
οὐχ ἥμαρτεν μέν, ὅμοιος δὲ ἦν τῷ πάσχοντι νηπίῳ
οὐχ ἥμαρτεν μέν, ὅμοιος δὲ ἦν τῷ πάσχοντι νηπίῳ