Definitive Evidence that Barabbas is a Judaizing parody of the Marcion's UNKNOWN Son of Father

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Giuseppe
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Definitive Evidence that Barabbas is a Judaizing parody of the Marcion's UNKNOWN Son of Father

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:07 am

Couchoud and Stahl had argued justly:

Contrary to Basilides, Marcion professed that his Jesus had been crucified. It was the base of the mystery. By his death the Son had ransomed men from the Creator god and had given them to the Father.
Although not having a body himself, but only an etheral envelope, Jesus had certainly undergone on the cross an apparent death.
Tertullien, by which we know the doctrines of the Marcionites, is very affirmative on this point.
It is easy to understand with what indignation, what anger, the Christians attached to Messianic waiting and Jewish prophecies, the Christians who’s Apocalypse reveals us their state of mind, had to initially consider these people, enemies of the Christ of Israel and God of Israel, who forged a crucified Jesus, to which they allotted the strange name, of Son of the Father. One ridiculed this
name in the Aramaic form of Bar-Abbas. This son-of-Father who treats the old prophets as robbers and brigands, himself is treated as a brigand. The polemic against Jesus Bar-Abbas took the most popular and most effective form, that of the account. It was a
question of showing that only crucified, the only redeemer of the men, was as well the Christ of Israel, that even as announced the prophets. The Synoptic gospels, mainly Luke and Matthew, stuck to this demonstration. As of the birth of Jesus, an inspired prophet, Simeon, took Jesus in his arms and recognized in him the Christ, the salvation of God [Luke 2:20), light of the nations, glory of the people of Israel.

Matthew underlines of a feature supported twenty achievements of prophecies. In front of Pilate Jesus is formally accused of saying is Christ, a King (Luke 23:2), and when Pilate asks to him whether he is it, he does not contradict. Thus there is no doubt. The one crucified in truth is well Jesus the Christ.
As for Jesus Bar-Abbas, the brigand, he was not at all crucified. He was released. Here are where it is necessary to answer those which tell another thing of him. As for the circumstances of the release, they were invented and skilfully arranged in the account so
as to still prove another useful thing: the lack of responsibility by Pilate. Thus the episodes of Barabbas and Simon of Cyrene are of the same own way.
They are polemical accounts. The first is directed against the Gospel of John, the second against the Gospel of Basilides.
If our interpretation is valid, it should be proven, contrary to the current opinion, that the core of the Gospel of John is earlier than the Synoptic gospels. And to corroborate it, it would be necessary to show other cases of Synoptic polemic against John. We will make short remarks on these two points.

https://vridar.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... r_engl.pdf

Now I have found the definitive evidence that their interpretation is absolutely correct.

Bar-Abbas
was the Jewish name given to the bastards, i.e. the natural sons of unknown father, just as in the World of Westeros Snow is the name of the bastards.

This view is given without reference by Jean Radermakers, S. J., Au fil de l'Evangile selon saint Matthieu, 2, s° ed. p. 342.

Barabbas was the bastard, the natural son of an unknown father.

...Unknown father…

I know only a candidate for the role of who preached the Christ of an alien god, the Son of an Unknown Father, who revealed the existence of the his Father for the first time to the entire world only in recent times…

...Marcion of Sinope.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Secret Alias
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Re: Definitive Evidence that Barabbas is a Judaizing parody of the Marcion's UNKNOWN Son of Father

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:15 am

So it's 'definitive' because you agree with something? But you agree with thousands of things. They are all equally 'definitive'?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Giuseppe
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Re: Definitive Evidence that Barabbas is a Judaizing parody of the Marcion's UNKNOWN Son of Father

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:19 am

I have made again and again the precise claim that on this particular point I am more certain, confident and sure than on a lot of other points said by me in the past.

Obviously, I say this to take the distance from the your false claim.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Secret Alias
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Re: Definitive Evidence that Barabbas is a Judaizing parody of the Marcion's UNKNOWN Son of Father

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:54 am

But what's so 'definitive' about it other than you like what it says? There isn't a smoking gun here just something you like. My dog likes licking his balls but he doesn't go on forums everyday to tell everyone he likes it.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Giuseppe
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Re: Definitive Evidence that Barabbas is a Judaizing parody of the Marcion's UNKNOWN Son of Father

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:04 am

It is all there, idiot. if you are so blind (and judaizer) that you cannot see that that is the definitive evidence, then it is a your problem not mine. :whistling:

It is simply the best solution actually in circulation that better explains the enigma Barabbas.

To explain the enigma Barabbas you have to explain precisely:
  • why the auhtor goes so far until to name a murderer and a robber (who has to be hated by the reader in virtue of that his being such) with that precise name (you know what is that name I refer to).
You have to realize that what can move the author to give a so negative portrait of a guy with that name (you know that name) can be only a rival sect of which the existence is proved.

For example, Lena Einhorn says that Barabbas is the Egyptian Prophet who was able to escape the death.

But Lena is unable to give evidence of a rival sect adoring the Egyptian as the Christ Son of Father.

Idem for any proponent of the Zealot hypothesis who sees in Barabbas a trace of the disiepta membra of sediction sown in the gospels: where is the evidence of a rival sect adoring the zealot?

But I have evidence of a rival sect that adored a Jesus Son of Father who was unknown and was crucified.

Marcionites existed there out. Marcion of Sinope was a historical person.

Hence there is a smoking gun, here, pace Secret Alias's obstinate :arrow: "canine" resistance for the contrary.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Joseph D. L.
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Re: Definitive Evidence that Barabbas is a Judaizing parody of the Marcion's UNKNOWN Son of Father

Post by Joseph D. L. » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:59 pm

So your idea of definitive is someone's interpretation and that you merely agree with it?

Even Couchoud's interpretation doesn't make sense:

One ridiculed this name in the Aramaic form of Bar-Abbas. This son-of-Father who treats the old prophets as robbers and brigands, himself is treated as a brigand. The polemic against Jesus Bar-Abbas took the most popular and most effective form, that of the account.

How does that apply to Marcion's god/Isu Christus? Instead, it works better as a polemic against the god of the Israelites due to how Barabbas is portrayed as a murderer who is released at the behest of the Jews (a point Marcion would definitely had used as ammunition against the Jewish god). But this is not original to Marcion--it first appears in the Hebrew Gospel. So again, how exactly is this useful against Marcion?

Couchoud even contradicts himself following:

Thus the episodes of Barabbas and Simon of Cyrene are of the same own way.
They are polemical accounts. The first is directed against the Gospel of John, the second against the Gospel of Basilides.

How does this even make sense? The Basilidians supposedly honoured Simon of Cyrene as the true crucified one. There is is no evidence that he was reviled by another sect, Jewish or otherwise. And sense Couchoud interprets Barabbas and Simon as aspects of the same polemic, if his view of Simon can be shown to be wrong, then that takes away from his claim about Barabbas.

They are not polemics. Period. Beyond the fringe theory of Couchoud you don't have "definitive" evidence for anything.
Marcionites existed there out. Marcion of Sinope was a historical person.
Christians exist there out. Jesus was a historical person.

Can we even be sure that how the church characterizes Marcion is accurate? How can we know that our idea of who or what Marcion was is the truth?
I have made again and again the precise claim that on this particular point I am more certain, confident and sure than on a lot of other points said by me in the past.


So? No one has to take anything you say seriously on the sole virtue that you are certain. To be honest, the fact that you are so certain makes me doubt you even more. Because certainty is another faith. You are not open to other possibilities. You treat this as a religion. That's why I say you are no different than a Christian.

You sound like you need to be committed. You boarder on the psychotic.

Giuseppe
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Re: Definitive Evidence that Barabbas is a Judaizing parody of the Marcion's UNKNOWN Son of Father

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:12 pm

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:59 pm
Instead, it works better as a polemic against the god of the Israelites due to how Barabbas is portrayed as a murderer who is released at the behest of the Jews (a point Marcion would definitely had used as ammunition against the Jewish god). But this is not original to Marcion--it first appears in the Hebrew Gospel. So again, how exactly is this useful against Marcion?
Marcion would have despised Barabbas by calling him not "Barabbas" but Christ (meaning the Jewish Christ). While in the narrative the emphasis is all in pointing out that the Jesus son of an unknown father is the evil character, while the Jesus who is called Christ/"king of the Jews" is the good character.

If even this escapes you then, by writing here only to support a modern judaizer above, you are the living proof of the sound truth of the Jesus's logion:
“Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

The Basilidians supposedly honoured Simon of Cyrene as the true crucified one
you are idiot here. The Basilidians adored the Christ who escaped the cross, not the idiot Simon nailed to the cross. Go distant, ignorant.
How does that apply to Marcion's god/Isu Christus?
p.s. I don't know no Isu Christus of Marcion.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Definitive Evidence that Barabbas is a Judaizing parody of the Marcion's UNKNOWN Son of Father

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:21 pm

Can we even be sure that how the church characterizes Marcion is accurate? How can we know that our idea of who or what Marcion was is the truth?
sure, yes. I don't follow the idiocy of a modern judaizer clearly visibly embarrassed by the existence of someone who hated the god of the Jews in the past.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Joseph D. L.
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Re: Definitive Evidence that Barabbas is a Judaizing parody of the Marcion's UNKNOWN Son of Father

Post by Joseph D. L. » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:53 pm

And you are the embodiment of the adage " Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

"
Marcion would have despised Barabbas by calling him not "Barabbas" but Christ (meaning the Jewish Christ). While in the narrative the emphasis is all in pointing out that the Jesus son of an unknown father is the evil character, while the Jesus who is called Christ/"king of the Jews" is the good character.
That's why the Barabbas-as-a-polemic doesn't make sense, because it can't apply to anything.

Tell me, what else did Marcion think? since you seem to have access to his mind and know what he would and would not have thought.

Are you such a fucking moron that you don't realize that Marcion's Christ was le Christi of the the Jews?
The Basilidians adored the Christ who escaped the cross, not the idiot Simon nailed to the cross. Go distant, ignorant.
They didn't revile Simon. In fact, Jesus assumed the form of Simon. Thus Simon became, allegorically speaking, the new Christ.
I don't know no Isu Christus of Marcion.


You don't seem to know of anything.

Giuseppe
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Re: Definitive Evidence that Barabbas is a Judaizing parody of the Marcion's UNKNOWN Son of Father

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:29 am

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:53 pm
Are you such a fucking moron that you don't realize that Marcion's Christ was le Christi of the the Jews?
the Marcion's Christ was NOT the Christ of the Jews. To have an idea about the Marcionite Christ, read proto-John, idiot.
They didn't revile Simon. In fact, Jesus assumed the form of Simon. Thus Simon became, allegorically speaking, the new Christ.
this is your stupid phantasy. I prefer George R. Martin. Irenaeus is clear about the spiritual Christ laughing about the carnal Jesus (or Simon or how you want to call the victim).
I don't know no Isu Christus of Marcion.


You don't seem to know of anything.
I boast for not knowing what you claim to know.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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