On the goodness of Pilate

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Giuseppe
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On the goodness of Pilate

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:46 am

Why is Pilate described, in the Gospels, as a positive character, despite of him being historically a really cruel governor?

The mainstream answer is adulation of the Romans. But this answer assumes historicity, or the presence of an earliest story where Pilate was described in more negative terms.

Both these two answers are not persuasive.

The facts are too much evident:

1) Pilate was a negative historical character.

2) the authors and the readers knew (1).

3) despite of (2), they introduced Pilate as a positive character.

The contradiction was deliberate.

But that contradiction is similar to the following:

1) The demiurge was a negative deity, one of the seven archons who crucified Jesus in outer space.

2) the authors and the readers knew the Gnostic propaganda about (1).

3) despite of (2), they described the demiurge as a positive character.

In this way, they could say: just as the demiurge was not really the killer of Jesus, despite of him being described as such by some Christians there out, so Pilate was not really the killer of Jesus, despite of him being described as a cruel governor by these historians there out.

If the readers could be persuaded about the goodness of Pilate, contra factum that he was not really good, then the same readers could be persuaded about the goodness of the creator, contra factum that an increasing religious propaganda described the latter as a cruel deity.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: On the goodness of Pilate

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:49 am

The essential goodness of Pilate, an earthly archon, reflects the essential goodness of YHWH, the celestial archon.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

perseusomega9
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Re: On the goodness of Pilate

Post by perseusomega9 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:05 am

you're like the Cirque du Soleil of mental gymnasts

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: On the goodness of Pilate

Post by Ben C. Smith » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:39 am

perseusomega9 wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:05 am
you're like the Cirque du Soleil of mental gymnasts
:notworthy:
ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΗΘΕΙΑ

Giuseppe
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Re: On the goodness of Pilate

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:46 am

It escapes me all this irony about my views, when what you argue for the goodness of Pilate in the gospels are reasons not very persuasive at all, even when you argue under the mythicist paradigm.

What I am saying: I am serious.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: On the goodness of Pilate

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:35 am

The essential goodness of Pilate, an earthly archon who “delivered” Jesus to the Jews, reflects the essential goodness of YHWH (when he “delivered” Jesus per 1 Cor 11:23), the celestial archon. If Pilate was described as essentially evil, then the celestial equivalent, the creator, had to mirror that moral corruption: not just the case, in the intentions of “Mark”.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: On the goodness of Pilate

Post by Joseph D. L. » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:24 am


Now at the feast the governor was accustomed to release for the crowd any one prisoner whom they wanted. And they had then a notorious prisoner called Barabbas. So when they had gathered, Pilate said to them, “Whom do you want me to release for you: Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?” For he knew that it was out of envy that they had delivered him up. Besides, while he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent word to him, “Have nothing to do with that righteous man, for I have suffered much because of him today in a dream.” Now the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and destroy Jesus. The governor again said to them, “Which of the two do you want me to release for you?” And they said, “Barabbas.” Pilate said to them, “Then what shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?” They all said, “Let him be crucified!” And he said, “Why? What evil has he done?” But they shouted all the more, “Let him be crucified!” So when Pilate saw that he was gaining nothing, but rather that a riot was beginning, he took water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying, “I am innocent of this man's blood; see to it yourselves.” And all the people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!” Then he released for them Barabbas, and having scourged Jesus, delivered him to be crucified.

Pilate is freed from responsibility of Christ’s execution, while the Jews relish in his blood.

Once again Giuseppe is shown to be an utter dunderhead who doesn’t understand basic logical progression.

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GakuseiDon
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Re: On the goodness of Pilate

Post by GakuseiDon » Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:14 am

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:24 am
Once again Giuseppe is shown to be an utter dunderhead who doesn’t understand basic logical progression.
Let he who is without syncretism, cast the first stone.

If you like, what Giuseppe is doing is a type of syncretism. He is combining ideas from the Gospels and his own idiosyncratic views of gnosticism to come at a new understanding of ancient beliefs. True, he is chasing a rabbit only he can see down that syncretism rabbit hole. But he's not doing anyone any harm. His ideas are at least interesting. Don't you have your own rabbit to chase?
It is really important, in life, to concentrate our minds on our enthusiasms, not on our dislikes. -- Roger Pearse

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GakuseiDon
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Re: On the goodness of Pilate

Post by GakuseiDon » Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:31 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:46 am
1) The demiurge was a negative deity, one of the seven archons who crucified Jesus in outer space.
I think I missed that episode. I'm guessing that the seven archons are the planets -- if not, who are they? Where does the idea that seven archons crucified Christ come from?
It is really important, in life, to concentrate our minds on our enthusiasms, not on our dislikes. -- Roger Pearse

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: On the goodness of Pilate

Post by Joseph D. L. » Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:20 am

Don't be a div just because you completely botched your attempts at refuting me. What Giuseppe is engaging in is hermeneutics. Syncretism is the homogenization of two or more distinct religious/cultural expressions. Don't project your own ignorance onto others.

Giuseppe has done plenty of harm on this forum, from routinely being dismissive of criticism--going so far as to say that he is fanatical and dogmatic in his beliefs and shuns criticism--to using the death of a professor to besmirch him, because said professor had the audacity to criticize Carrier, whom Giuseppe looks to as a loadstar in his sea of stupidity.

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