Question for Secret Alias about Ishu.

[Joseph D. L.]

Is there a linguistic relation between Ishu and Joshua/Yeshua?

[Stuart]

It's early East Syriac dialect for Joshua, usually Isho -- but that is our westernization of it.

We say Jesus because it was distinguished in Latin from Joshua. But the Greek is the same, you find Joshua as Ἰησοῦ (or Ἰησοῦς υἱὸς Ναυη) throughout the LXX. The Latin allows us, or perhaps forces us, to separate Jesus from Joshua.

[Joseph D. L.]

Thanks Stuart. I was getting more along the lines of Ish, Man, and Yeshua.

I ask because I remember SA saying that there wasn't a connection between Ishu and the Marcionite Isu--that the two are from separate languages and meanings--but also remember him saying that Isu was an abbreviation of the Greek Ἰησοῦς. If I'm misremembering than he'll let me know I'm sure.

I have trouble enough with my own language.

[lsayre]

SA will need to confirm, but it was my belief from attempting to follow his guidance in this matter that "Ish" is an anglicized transliteration of a Hebrew word for "man". I'm of course hampered and hindered by not knowing any language other than English.

[Joseph D. L.]

SA will need to confirm, but it was my belief from attempting to follow his guidance in this matter that "Ish" is an anglicized transliteration of a Hebrew word for "man". I'm of course hampered and hindered by not knowing any language other than English.

Ish is the Hebrew for Man (similar to adam), and is the name of the angel that wrestles with Jacob and transforms him into Israel, and it's implied that this is the same angel that appeared in the pillars of smoke and fire who lead the Israelites out of the land of bondage. Justin at one point unambiguously calls Jesus this very angel, even calling him Man.

The distinction here is between the Heavenly Man (Ish/Adam Kadmon) and the earthly Adam. That Paul even acknowledges this in 1 Cor 15 is 100% proof that Paul/Marcion was indebted to Hebrew mysticism.

Something I've been wanting to ask him since I came here was if there are any rabbinical literature or sources that delve deeper into this angelic figure. I haven't because I am afraid of getting on his bad sad.

[Secret Alias]

Joshua has a distinct etymological origin from 'Man.' Joshua is rooted in Yah or Yahweh.

[Joseph D. L.]

So zero relation.

I ask because I was theorizing that the angel who appeared in the pillar fire with God's name in him was named Joshua.

Not even as pun I guess? (Yeshu/Ishu).

[Secret Alias]

No the angel was named Ish. The angel appears elsewhere. That's why Moses is called man of God.

[Joseph D. L.]

No the angel was named Ish. The angel appears elsewhere. That's why Moses is called man of God.

That's where I'm having trouble.

Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.

YHWH's name isn't Ish/Man, though. It's Yahweh. So I was thinking that there was some linguistic trickery going on between YHWH, Ish, and Joshua.

Excuse my ignorance. I don't know anything about Hebrew.

[Secret Alias]

The proper relationship is like this:

1. The Pentateuch is written as if Joshua is the 'one like Moses' = Christ
2. But Moses changes into the man of God after meeting the angel Ish.

Joshua and Ishu are two different entities/two different levels to the equation. At the top is Ishu the Man then is occultated, then Moses the 'man of God' whose person/face shines, lastly Moses disappears and Joshua the prophet like Moses leads the nation into Israel. No relationship between Ishu and Joshua except Joshua sees the angel (according to Justin) before sacking Jericho.

With respect to the gospel, I have a theory. But of course not everyone is going to buy it.