The Name Above All Names (Phil 2:8) is Man (IS)

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Post Reply
Secret Alias
Posts: 18362
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

The Name Above All Names (Phil 2:8) is Man (IS)

Post by Secret Alias »

They say, too, that Here delights in the lily, and Artemis in the myrtle. For if the flowers were made especially for man, and senseless people have taken them not for their own proper and grateful use, but have abused them to the thankless service of demons, we must keep from them for conscience sake. The crown is the symbol of untroubled tranquillity. For this reason they crown the dead, and idols, too, on the same account, by this fact giving testimony to their being dead. For revellers do not without crowns celebrate their orgies; and when once they are encircled with flowers, at last they are inflamed excessively. We must have no communion with demons. Nor must we crown the living image of God after the manner of dead idols. For the fair crown of amaranth is laid up for those who have lived well. This flower the earth is not able to bear; heaven alone is competent to produce it. Further, it were irrational in us, who have heard that the Lord was crowned with thorns, Matthew 27:29 to crown ourselves with flowers, insulting thus the sacred passion of the Lord. For the Lord's crown prophetically pointed to us, who once were barren, but are placed around Him through the Church of which He is the Head. But it is also a type of faith, of life in respect of the substance of the wood, of joy in respect of the appellation of crown, of danger in respect of the thorn, for there is no approaching to the Word without blood. But this platted crown fades, and the plait of perversity is untied, and the flower withers. For the glory of those who have not believed on the Lord (τῷ κυρίῳ μὴ πεπιστευκότων) fades. And they crowned ΙΣ raised aloft, testifying to their own ignorance. For being hard of heart, they understood not that this very thing, which they called the disgrace of the Lord, was a prophecy wisely uttered: The Lord was not known by the people which erred [Isaiah 1:3], which was not circumcised in understanding, whose darkness was not enlightened, which knew not God, denied the Lord, forfeited the place of the true Israel, persecuted God, hoped to reduce the Word to disgrace; and Him whom they crucified as a malefactor they crowned as a king. Wherefore the Man on whom they believed not (οὐκ ἐπίστευσαν ἄνθρωπον), the man-loving God they shall know to be the Lord, the Just (τὸν φιλάνθρωπον θεὸν ἐπιγνώσονται κύριον καὶ δίκαιον). Whom they provoked to show Himself to be the Lord (ὅτι αὐτοὶ παρεπίκραναν ἐπιδείξασθαι τὸν κύριον), to Him when lifted up they bore witness (τοῦτο αὐτῷ ὑψουμένῳ μεμαρτυρήκασι) with the diadem of righteousness who is exalted above every name by encircling Him (τῷ ὑπὲρ πᾶν ὄνομα ἐπηρμένῳ περιάψαντες) with the ever-blooming thorn (διὰ τῆς ἀειθαλοῦς ἀκάνθης). This diadem, being hostile to those who plot against Him, coerces them; and friendly to those who form the Church, defends them. This crown is the flower of those who have believed on the glorified One, but covers with blood and chastises those who have not believed. It is a symbol, too, of the Lord's successful work, He having borne on His head, the princely part of His body, all our iniquities by which we were pierced. For He by His own passion rescued us from offenses, and sins, and such like thorns; and having destroyed the devil, deservedly said in triumph, O Death, where is your sting? 1 Corinthians 15:55 And we eat grapes from thorns, and figs from thistles; while those to whom He stretched forth His hands — the disobedient and unfruitful people — He lacerates into wounds. I can also show you another mystic meaning in it. For when the Almighty Lord of the universe began to legislate by the Word, and wished His power to be manifested to Moses, a godlike vision of light that had assumed a shape was shown him in the burning bush (the bush is a thorny plant); but when the Word ended the giving of the law and His stay with men, the Lord was again mystically crowned with thorn. On His departure from this world to the place whence He came, He repeated the beginning of His old descent, in order that the Word beheld at first in the bush, and afterwards taken up crowned by the thorn, might show the whole to be the work of one power, He Himself being one, the Son of the Father, who is truly one, the beginning and the end of time. [Clement Instructor 2.8]
The implication seems to be that the very same 'Man' who was strange or unknown to the Jews was at once the holder of the name which is above all names. The implication seems to be the Jews will call him 'Lord' because he is 'just' to them (i.e. punishes them) but to the Christians he is merciful and known by another name - Man.

There is a strong parallel with a passage in Philo - that Clement copies out verbatim as his own teaching - where it is understood that Jacob when he finally sees god on the heavenly ladder no longer sees him as Yahweh - 'Lord' - but instead Man or Elohim. Philo understands him to be singing a song acknowledging his change of understanding.
Last edited by Secret Alias on Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
Posts: 18362
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: The Name Above All Names (Phil 2:8) is Man (IS)

Post by Secret Alias »

At the very least Clement argues against kurios being the name above all names as 'Lord' is the lower manifestation of God (something he learned from the writings of Philo). Yahweh is the god of bad men according to Philo. The Just god, according to Philo, is an inferior manifestation of the Divinity reserved for evil people.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Stuart
Posts: 878
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:24 am
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: The Name Above All Names (Phil 2:8) is Man (IS)

Post by Stuart »

Which passage in Philo? A note of source cited, book and chapter, would be nice.

Philo sounds very much proto-Gnostic or proto-Marcionite in that description of the properties of Yahweh.
“’That was excellently observed’, say I, when I read a passage in an author, where his opinion agrees with mine. When we differ, there I pronounce him to be mistaken.” - Jonathan Swift
Secret Alias
Posts: 18362
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: The Name Above All Names (Phil 2:8) is Man (IS)

Post by Secret Alias »

Old notes at my blog:

http://stephanhuller.blogspot.com/2012/ ... a-was.html
http://stephanhuller.blogspot.com/2012/ ... hilos.html
http://stephanhuller.blogspot.com/2013/ ... ty_15.html

The writings are old on my part. Just look at the citations of Philo for reference.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
User avatar
mlinssen
Posts: 3431
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:01 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: The Name Above All Names (Phil 2:8) is Man (IS)

Post by mlinssen »

That is most extraordinarily helpful. Clement channeling Philo citing Jacob...
12. say(s) the(PL) disciple to IS : we know : you will go from-the-hand-of we who? is(M) who/which will make-be great upward upon we say(s) IS behold : the place have you(PL) come therein you(PL) will go toward Jacob the righteous this-one have the(F) heaven with the earth come-to-be because-of he
It is exactly that what Thomas does in logion 12: pointing his ignorant disciples to Judaism, to Jacob's dream. Jacob, who received a new name
Genesis 32:28 Then he said, "Your name shall no longer be
called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed."
Secret Alias
Posts: 18362
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: The Name Above All Names (Phil 2:8) is Man (IS)

Post by Secret Alias »

FWIW the homiletic etymology of the name Israel = yashar to be straight, upstanding. This even though it requires no differentiation between sin and shin. The Samaritans do not distinguish between sin and shin. Samaritan pronunciation
Yishrael https://books.google.com/books?id=-wn8A ... sh&f=false So it is very old.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 8798
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: The Name Above All Names (Phil 2:8) is Man (IS)

Post by MrMacSon »

mlinssen wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:11 pm
... Clement channeling Philo citing Jacob...
12. say(s) the(PL) disciple to IS : we know : you will go from-the-hand-of we who? is(M) who/which will make-be great upward upon we say(s) IS behold : the place have you(PL) come therein you(PL) will go toward Jacob the righteous this-one have the(F) heaven with the earth come-to-be because-of he
Where [what text] is this passage^ from?

mlinssen wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:11 pm
It is exactly that what Thomas does in logion 12: pointing his ignorant disciples to Judaism, to Jacob's dream. Jacob, who received a new name
Genesis 32:28 Then he said, "Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel,
for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed."
User avatar
mlinssen
Posts: 3431
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:01 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: The Name Above All Names (Phil 2:8) is Man (IS)

Post by mlinssen »

Ah, sorry, forgot. That is from my Thomas translation, the interactive one that hyperlinks each word into the online Coptic Dictionary of the KELLIA project

It's a really literal translation like that of Grondin, but with more details, and the ability to look up every word with just one simple click
Post Reply