davidmartin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:06 amI agree with what you wrote and think the James part is likely original, although it could still always have born the name Thomas because of a scribal attribution it could always been more associated with James as the authority
I am not sure about the James part being primary or original in the absolute sense, but yes, more original than the Thomas part. What makes me suspect that
both the James
and the Thomas parts may be secondary, at least in some sense, is that both of them fall into that section of the text which seems to interrupt the questions and answers about fasting, prayer, and alms:
Thomas 0.1-14.5:
0[.1] These are the secret sayings which the living Jesus spoke, and Didymus Judas Thomas wrote them down.
1[.1] And he said, “Whoever finds the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death.”
2.1 Jesus said, “He who seeks should not stop seeking until he finds. 2 And when he finds, he will be troubled, 3 and when he is troubled, he will be astonished, 4 and he will reign over the all.”
3.1 Jesus said, “If those who lead you say to you, ‘Behold, the kingdom is in heaven,’ then the birds of heaven would precede you! 2 If they say to you that it is in the sea, then the fish would precede you! 3 But the kingdom is inside you and outside of you. 4 When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are sons of the living Father. 5 But if you do not know yourselves, you are in poverty and you are poverty.”
4.1 Jesus said, “The man old in his days will not hesitate to ask a little child seven days old about the place of life, and he will live, 2 because many who are first will be last. 3 And they will become one.”
5.1 Jesus said, “Know the one who is before your face, and what is hidden from you will be revealed to you. 2 For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed.”
6.1 His disciples asked him and said to him, “Do you want us to fast? And how shall we pray? Shall we give alms? And what diet shall we observe?” 2 Jesus said, “Do not lie, 3 and what you hate, do not do, 4 because all things are manifest in the presence of the truth. 5 For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, 6 and nothing covered which will be left without being uncovered.”
7.1 Jesus said, “Blessed is the lion which the man eats, and the lion becomes man. 2 And cursed is the man whom the lion eats and the ⟨man⟩ becomes ⟨lion⟩.”
8.1 And he said, “The man is like a wise fisherman, who cast his net into the sea. He pulled it up from the sea full of small fish. 2 Among them the wise fisherman found a good, large fish. 3 He cast all the little fish out i[n]to the sea, and he chose the large fish without being troubled. 4 He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
9.1 Jesus said, “Behold, the sower went forth and filled his hand and sowed. 2 Some fell onto the path, and the birds came and gleaned them. 3 Others fell onto rock and did not take root in the ground and produce ears upwards. 4 And others fell onto thorns. They choked the seed, and worms ate them. 5 But others fell onto the good soil, and it yielded good fruit upwards. It brought sixty per measure and one hundred and twenty per measure.”
10[.1] Jesus said, “I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I am guarding it until it burns.”
11.1 Jesus said, “This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. 2 But the dead will not live, and the living will not die. 3 In the days when you ate what is dead you made it live. When you come into the light, what will you do? 4 On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?”
12.1 The disciples said to Jesus, “We know that you will depart from us. Who will be leader over us?” 2 Jesus said to them, “Wherever you have come from, you shall go to James the Just, for the sake of whom heaven and earth came into being.”
13.1 Jesus said to his disciples, “Compare me and tell me whom I resemble.” 2 Simon Peter said to him, “You are like a righteous angel.” 3 Matthew said to him, “You are like a wise philosopher.” 4 Thomas said to him, “Master, my mouth is completely unable to say whom you are like.” 5 Jesus said, “I am not your master. When you drank, you became drunk with the bubbling spring which I have dug.” 6 And he took him and withdrew, and spoke three words to him. 7 When Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, “What did Jesus say to you?” 8 Thomas said to them, “If I told you one of the words which he spoke to me, you would pick up stones and throw them at me. But fire would come forth from the stones, and burn you.”
14.1 Jesus said to them, “If you fast, you will give birth to sin in yourselves. 2 And if you pray, you will be condemned. 3 And if you give alms, you will do ill to your spirits. 4 And if you go into any region and you travel in the districts — if you are received, eat what is set before you. Those who are sick among them, heal. 5 For whatever goes into your mouth will not defile you. Rather, whatever comes out of your mouth — that is what defiles you.”
And, for example, Thomas 77.2 comes between 30.2 and 31.1 in papyrus Oxyrhynchus 1, so we know that some shifting around of materials has transpired somewhere along the line in this text (as seems to be the case for
most early Christian gospel texts, to be sure).
The part that praises Thomas seems like secondary layer to me because it's one of the stock scenarios to raise an apostle over another although Thomas also praises Mary in another stock scene (the praising of Mary over Peter). These are found in the NT gospels as well but in John Thomas gets demoted and Mary is praised (over Judas!).
Yes, good points.
When did these battles occur in the name of apostles in texts like this? hmmm maybe late 1st to late 2nd century...
Maybe right from the start, or at least as far back as we can go?
1 Corinthians 1.11-12: 11 For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” or “I of Apollos,” or “I of Cephas,” or “I of Christ.”