An Introduction to David Trobisch

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Secret Alias
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An Introduction to David Trobisch

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:03 pm

Since there were individuals here asking about him

https://youtu.be/NmDC-bVnO_o
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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toejam
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Re: An Introduction to David Trobisch

Post by toejam » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:55 am

Good stuff. Thanks for the link.
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toejam
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Re: An Introduction to David Trobisch

Post by toejam » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:11 am

It's a crying shame that it isn't more commonly accepted that Luke-Acts is dependent on Josephus. Good to hear Trobisch embrace it.
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jayraskin
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Re: An Introduction to David Trobisch

Post by jayraskin » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:06 pm

Charming. Thanks. I really liked the point that just because Marcion was first doesn't mean he knew the real Jesus.

Solstice
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Re: An Introduction to David Trobisch

Post by Solstice » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:25 am

Good video. But does anyone know if Trobisch leans toward HJ or MJ? Does he have to be careful what he says now that he's employed by the Hobby Lobby Bible Museum?

I noticed that throughout that video he does the "Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus" thing by repeatedly saying things like "Jesus lives within us". <--- See what he's doing there?

However, I disagree that Marcion was the first/oldest Gospel (preceeding Mark) because there would not have been a need for Gnostics to create a human version of The Christ.

Otherwise, for those who want to know more about Trobisch, here's an old link of Price discussing one of Trobisch's books:

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/ ... _first.htm

Ulan
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Re: An Introduction to David Trobisch

Post by Ulan » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:59 am

Solstice wrote:Otherwise, for those who want to know more about Trobisch, here's an old link of Price discussing one of Trobisch's books:

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/ ... _first.htm
Or just look at his own website and download some of his articles:
http://trobisch.com/david/wb/pages/publications/pdf.php

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Secret Alias
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Re: An Introduction to David Trobisch

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:19 am

because there would not have been a need for Gnostics to create a human version of The Christ.
What 'reason' is there to do half things that human beings do? Can anyone fathom Charlie Sheen? Human beings inevitably have reasons which reason can't understand. That's all that certain about human motivation.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Secret Alias
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Re: An Introduction to David Trobisch

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:21 am

I don't agree with everything anyone says but at least you walk away thinking he comes to his conclusions through a fair evaluation of the evidence. That doesn't mean he's right. It just means that he doesn't start with a presumption and then make everything fit the presumption - a la mythicists and religious apologists.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Secret Alias
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Re: An Introduction to David Trobisch

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:27 am

I always go back to the Secret Mark explanation of Clement of Alexandria to reconcile the historical Jesus and mythical Jesus traditions. On the one hand there has to be something historical at the core of the strange story in the gospel - i.e. why the interest in crucifixion? There must have been 'an interest' in crucifixions among the Jews on the part of the original gospel writer. He assigns a year to THE crucifixion which either sparks his interest in crucifixions or explains his interest in crucifixions AND THEN the author of Luke changes that year (i.e. from 21 CE to 'the fifteen year of Tiberius'). On the one hand, how firm could the history of Christianity be if the year of Jesus's crucifixion just 'moves' like that. On the other hand, there must have been an historical 'crucifixion' or 'crucifixions' that prompts the author to set THE crucifixion a jubilee or 49 years in front of the destruction of the temple. It's hard to say either way, but I think THAT's the underlying 'historical framework' behind the gospel. The author of Luke wanted to get away from the 'mythical' attachment between Jesus's crucifixion and the mass crucifixion of Jews during the Jewish War separated by a mystically significant number. But can you prove that all of this is 'fake history'? I don't think so.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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toejam
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Re: An Introduction to David Trobisch

Post by toejam » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:06 pm

Solstice wrote:Good video. But does anyone know if Trobisch leans toward HJ or MJ?
I just sent him an email to ask him this question. Will post the response if I get one.
Last edited by toejam on Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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