Jesus' appearances to Peter and James
Re: Jesus' appearances to Peter and James
For what it's worth, the gospel of John is biased toward John more than to any other apostle. Not to Peter or James.
My research on the prophecies of the Messiah's resurrection: http://rakovskii.livejournal.com
Re: Jesus' appearances to Peter and James
Strange. I'm not aware GJohn even mentions the Apostle John. He may be referred to in John 13 and 21, however.
Re: Jesus' appearances to Peter and James
I meant that the NT seems to be generally biased towards Paul in the sense of being "Pauline," but I'm not very acquainted with the Gospel of John, so I did some research:
Kostenberger (Pauline):
https://books.google.com/books?id=nvcQB ... NE&f=false
Rassimus (Pauline):
https://books.google.com/books?id=pN07v ... NE&f=false
Borgen (Pauline):
https://books.google.com/books?id=U7wFA ... NE&f=false
Barrett (Pauline):
https://books.google.com/books?id=tWR8D ... NE&f=false
Audin (Pauline):
https://books.google.com/books?id=ULGCB ... NE&f=false
Willitts (Pauline):
https://books.google.com/books?id=-ZxLA ... NE&f=false
Smith (non-Pauline):
https://books.google.com/books?id=tNJ7x ... NE&f=false
And just to be funny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kwQHVOTRVY
Kostenberger (Pauline):
https://books.google.com/books?id=nvcQB ... NE&f=false
Rassimus (Pauline):
https://books.google.com/books?id=pN07v ... NE&f=false
Borgen (Pauline):
https://books.google.com/books?id=U7wFA ... NE&f=false
Barrett (Pauline):
https://books.google.com/books?id=tWR8D ... NE&f=false
Audin (Pauline):
https://books.google.com/books?id=ULGCB ... NE&f=false
Willitts (Pauline):
https://books.google.com/books?id=-ZxLA ... NE&f=false
Smith (non-Pauline):
https://books.google.com/books?id=tNJ7x ... NE&f=false
And just to be funny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kwQHVOTRVY
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
Re: Jesus' appearances to Peter and James
Who do you think the "Beloved disciple" is that the book focuses on so much?Adam wrote:Strange. I'm not aware GJohn even mentions the Apostle John. He may be referred to in John 13 and 21, however.
John, James, and Peter were Pillars of the Church. The Beloved Disciple wasn't Peter.
My research on the prophecies of the Messiah's resurrection: http://rakovskii.livejournal.com
Re: Jesus' appearances to Peter and James
http://biblehub.com/mark/9-38.htm
gJohn no exorcisms.
gJohn no exorcisms.
Re: Jesus' appearances to Peter and James
I have never explored the Gospel of John or the question of the identity of the Beloved Disciple before. So this is all new to me and I've got my student cap on and I'm just hovering around the edges for now.
The first thing I've noticed is this on the Wikipedia page for John the Evangelist:
"Considering that the author [of the Gospel of John] names (and therefore is not claiming to be) both Peter and James, it has generally been accepted that the author either was the Apostle John or was pretending to be."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Evangelist
But I can't find any references to James in the Gospel of John:
http://biblehub.net/searchgospels.php?q=james
Tabor argues that the Beloved Disciple is James:
"James D. Tabor argues that the beloved disciple is Jesus' brother James. One of several pieces of evidence Tabor offers is a literal interpretation of John 19:26, "Then when Jesus saw His mother and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, Woman, behold your son."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciple_whom_Jesus_loved
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/19-26.htm
The "his" part doesn't seem to be there in Greek, but there is a "the" (τὴν):
http://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm
But the "mother" part (μητέρα) is rendered in the interlinear above as "[his] mother."
I don't know Greek so I don't know what to make of that.
The next verse seems to rule out Tabor's idea though, given the "from that time on" part:
"...and to the disciple, 'Here is your mother.' From that time on, this disciple took her into his home."
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/19-27.htm
But I haven't seen the other pieces of Tabor's argument yet.
I'm just thinking out loud. John is so different from the synoptics. This is new territory for me. I've deliberately avoided John because it is very off putting to me (e.g., "You are of your father, the devil"). But I want to look into the Beloved Disciple issue more.
The first thing I've noticed is this on the Wikipedia page for John the Evangelist:
"Considering that the author [of the Gospel of John] names (and therefore is not claiming to be) both Peter and James, it has generally been accepted that the author either was the Apostle John or was pretending to be."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Evangelist
But I can't find any references to James in the Gospel of John:
http://biblehub.net/searchgospels.php?q=james
Tabor argues that the Beloved Disciple is James:
"James D. Tabor argues that the beloved disciple is Jesus' brother James. One of several pieces of evidence Tabor offers is a literal interpretation of John 19:26, "Then when Jesus saw His mother and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, Woman, behold your son."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciple_whom_Jesus_loved
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/19-26.htm
The "his" part doesn't seem to be there in Greek, but there is a "the" (τὴν):
http://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm
But the "mother" part (μητέρα) is rendered in the interlinear above as "[his] mother."
I don't know Greek so I don't know what to make of that.
The next verse seems to rule out Tabor's idea though, given the "from that time on" part:
"...and to the disciple, 'Here is your mother.' From that time on, this disciple took her into his home."
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/19-27.htm
But I haven't seen the other pieces of Tabor's argument yet.
I'm just thinking out loud. John is so different from the synoptics. This is new territory for me. I've deliberately avoided John because it is very off putting to me (e.g., "You are of your father, the devil"). But I want to look into the Beloved Disciple issue more.
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
Re: Jesus' appearances to Peter and James
Lazarus, John Mark, and Thomas are commonly suggested as the Beloved Disciple of (as I said) John 13 and 21. But once limited to these chapters (and excluding the Beloved Disciple from John 18 to 20 or anywhere else), I'm willing to go along with the traditional ascription of John the Apostle as the Beloved Disciple. He may have edited GJohn, but his additions were only first-hand eyewitness in John 13 and 21. (The disciple known to the high Priest and the "other disciple" in John 20 is John Mark. The disciple of John the Baptist In John 1 is Andrew, the author of the Signs Source. The writer of the Discourses is Nicodemus.)rakovsky wrote:Who do you think the "Beloved disciple" is that the book focuses on so much?Adam wrote:Strange. I'm not aware GJohn even mentions the Apostle John. He may be referred to in John 13 and 21, however.
John, James, and Peter were Pillars of the Church. The Beloved Disciple wasn't Peter.
Last edited by Adam on Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Jesus' appearances to Peter and James
which is the same as Luke 9:49arnoldo wrote:http://biblehub.com/mark/9-38.htm
gJohn no exorcisms.
Re: Jesus' appearances to Peter and James
Right, John objects to exorcisms in the other gospels and the gospel attributed to him has none.MrMacSon wrote:which is the same as Luke 9:49arnoldo wrote:http://biblehub.com/mark/9-38.htm
gJohn no exorcisms.
-
- Posts: 1030
- Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:19 am
Re: Jesus' appearances to Peter and James
That wasn't my point. I was just showing that Christians seemed to think their early leaders were killed by Jewish leadership for the same 'heresy'.andrewcriddle wrote:There is AFAIK no hint that his fellow Jews killed or attempted to kill Elisha ben Abuyah.perseusomega9 wrote:
Are these hints that Jews killed followers of the Two Powers in Heaven?Wiki - The Talmud relates that Elisha ben Abuyah (a rabbi and Jewish religious authority born in Jerusalem sometime before 70 CE), also called Acher (אחר, "other", as he became an apostate), entered Paradise and saw Metatron sitting down (an action that is not done in The Presence of God). Elishah ben Abuyah therefore looked to Metatron as a deity and said heretically: "There are indeed two powers in Heaven!"[15]
Andrew Criddle
The metric to judge if one is a good exegete: the way he/she deals with Barabbas.
Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.-Giuseppe
Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.-Giuseppe