This Thread is a resurrection of my award winning Thread at the ye olde FRDB:
Psalm 22:17, Hebrew Text, "Like A Lion". Determining Who's Original And Who's Lion?
which I have faith is one of the best discussions ever there. This thread had it all, qadmas, pashtas and azlas, Rabbis, Priests and nuns and wild dogs and roaring cats living together - Mass hysteria! Featuring me, spin, Apikorus, Schmuelman!, Jeffery, the (assistant) Professor, Gibson, Private Benjamin and the usual gang of clods and idiots.
The discussion centered around the likely original for an offending word of Psalm 22:17 (22:16 in the Christian Bible):
Our own Tenorikuma (Paul Davidson) has awakened the Force of this Thread with his own, what King (of Comedy) Larry David would say, is a "pretty, pretty good" article at his excellent blog:For dogs have compassed me: A company of evil-doers have inclosed me; They pierced my hands and my feet. (ASV)
A Few Remarks on the Problem of Psalm 22:16
I now have a first edition of my own related article at my new blog:
Psalm 22:17, Hebrew Text, "Like A Lion". Determining Who's Original And Who's Lion? Nahal Hever Fragment
Focusing on the related Nahal Hever fragment. For those not familiar with the Nahal Hever issue, Christians who use a (mis)translation of "pierced" for 22:17 claim the Nahal Hever fragment is a key piece of support (due to age). This fragment is badly faded so it's uncertain what the final letter of the offending word is. Apologists want it to be the letter which is not supported by the Masoretic tradition. While the resulting word would not have any known meaning, it would get Christians closer to a word, which would still not mean "pierced" but would be closer to "pierced" than "like a lion".
My article gives the following points to conclude it likely that the offending word of Nahal Hever is in lion with the Masoretic tradition:
- 1) The superior Masoretic transmission clearly prefers yod.
2) The meaning of the word with a vav would be unknown.
3) Yods and vavs of the time were very similar in script
4) The fragment is very difficult to read
David Instone-Brewer, has taken an interest in the issue.Dogs(A) surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce[a](B) my hands and my feet.
[a]Psalm 22:16 Dead Sea Scrolls and some manuscripts of the Masoretic Text, Septuagint and Syriac; most manuscripts of the Masoretic Text me, / like a lion
Anyway, everyone is welcome to comment, except for Harvey Dubish. For those who need points sharply explained, like outhouse, I even have lots of simple pictures. And, for every comment that Neil Godfrey makes, he will receive a free comment from rob. Enjoy!
The New Porphyry
Nota Ben = I'd be especially interested in what you think about "the word" at Nahal Hever.